THROWBACK: Episode #109: Rewiring Your Brain Using SHROOMS!!! + The Power of "NO" & Feeling Peace For The First Time, With Jahan Khamsehzadeh, Ph.D. + Author

Good day to you all!!! I am taking a break from recording new episodes for a few weeks. In the meantime I shall bestow upon you whichever past episodes the Spirit gives me to give to you. Let us listen. Let us learn. Let us grow.

Jahan Khamsehzadeh, Ph.D. completed his dissertation on psychedelics in the Philosophy, Cosmology, and Consciousness program at the California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS). His book, The Psilocybin Connection: Psychedelics, the Transformation of Consciousness, and Evolution of the Planet—An Integral Approach, was published by North Atlantic Books and distributed Spring 2022 by Penguin Random House. He earned his Masters in Consciousness and Transformative Studies from John F. Kennedy University, and his Bachelors from the University of Arizona with a major in Philosophy and minors in Physics, Psychology, and Mathematics. Jahan is currently a content advisor the Synthesis Psychedelic Guide training and works as a facilitator for legal psilocybin mushrooms ceremonies in Jamaica with Atman Retreats.

INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to):

·      Mysticism Defined

·      Recount Of First Time On Shrooms

·      Menstrual Cycles And Shrooms

·      Cultural Implications

·      The Brain: Rewired On Shrooms

·      Suicide And Depression

·      The Power of NO

·      Are You Ready To Feel Peace For The First Time?

CONNECT WITH JAHAN:

Website: https://psychedelicevolution.org

Book: https://shorturl.at/jlvGK

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jahan101/

Instagram: https://shorturl.at/lswA3

JAHAN’S RECOMMENDATIONS:

·      https://www.mycorisingfungi.com

·      https://www.psilohealth.co

·      https://atmanretreat.com

CONNECT WITH DE’VANNON:

Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.com

Website: https://www.DownUnderApparel.com   

Donate: https://shorturl.at/gq068

DE’VANNON’S RECOMMENDATIONS:

 · Survivors of Narcissistic Abuse & Codependency Support Groups (Virtual) - https://www.meetup.com/pittsburgh-narcissism-survivor-meetup-group/
·  COSA – 12 Step Recovery For Victims Of Compulsive Sexual Behavior - https://cosa-recovery.org
·  A Recommended Reading To Help Heal From Narcissism - https://amzn.to/41sg6FO
·   Sex Addicts Anonymous: HTTPS://WWW.SAA.ORG
·  COVERT NARCISSIST SIGNS: https://www.healthline.com/health/covert-narcissist#signs

Transcript

Episode #109: Rewiring Your Brain Using SHROOMS!!! + The Power of "NO" & Feeling Peace For The First Time, With Jahan Khamsehzadeh, Ph.D. + Author

[00:00:00] You're listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De'Vannon and I'll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what's really going on in your life.

There is nothing off the table and we've got a lot to talk about. So let's dive right into this episode.

Jahan Kamsizadeh, PhD. This is Dr. Jahan, y'all, completed his dissertation on psychedelics and the philosophy, cosmology, and consciousness program at the California Institute of Integral Studies. His book, The Psilocybin Connection. Psychedelics, The Transformation of Consciousness and Evolution of the Planet, An Integral Approach, was published by North Atlantic Books and distributed Spring [00:01:00] 2022 by Penguin Random House, y'all, which is a huge fucking deal.

Jahan and I are here to serve you up a delicious fucking episode, talking about shrooms, man, shrooms, the way they rewire our brains, we're gonna be talking about the effects of shrooms and menstrual cycles, cultural implications, suicide, depression. The power of no and so much more.

So go right ahead on and get your micro dose on and join Jahan and I on this journey.

De'Vannon: Hello, all of you, beautiful, transforming and brightening and evolving souls out there. My name is Devan, and I would like to welcome you back to the Sex, Drugs, and Jesus podcast. I have with me a highly intelligent man today who is super enlightened, super evolved, and he is doing his part to share that light in the world.

His name is Dr. [00:02:00] Dr. Jahan Kamsizadeh. And he is the author of The Psilocybin Connection, Psychedelics, the Transformation of Consciousness and Evolution of the Planet. How are you doing today, Doc? I know you told me to 

Jahan: call you. Thanks, brother. No, Jahan's great, and so I'm really happy to be with you and 

De'Vannon: your audience, so thank you.

Oh, absolutely. And you're talking to us from Oakland, California. You know, the world knows my heart is in L. A. My heart is in L. A., but I will be up in San Francisco next year around the time. Of that around the fall. I don't know if I'm going to come for the Folsom Street Fair or not, but I'll probably be there for the Folsom Street Fair.

Jahan: Dude, it's a lot of vitality here. A lot of festivals, a lot of great culture, you know, pretty much always happening in Oakland SF. So it's a great place to be, especially in the realm of psychedelics. 

De'Vannon: Yeah, so we're talking about fucking shrooms, man. So before, before we get into that, and you know, his book was picked up [00:03:00] by Penguin Random House, you know, it's a huge publisher they're always talked about on all the major networks, be it MSNBC, ABC or whatever.

Those are the sort of authors that they tend to have on those shows. So talk to us about like your education, how you came to be known as Dr. Jahan and your history and background and where you're from. Yeah, it's obviously 

Jahan: a very long process. The bachelor's was first in physics and mathematics, and then I had a mushroom journey that was like me to leave physics and study mysticism, and I'm like, mysticism's not even a major or profession.

But I did leave physics and major in philosophy, minored in physics, mathematics, and psychology, then got my masters in consciousness, transformative studies in the Bay Area. Then the Doctrines of Philosophy, Cosmology, Consciousness. And then gearing up to write the dissertation, you know, I was very clear that psychedelics transformative things in my life.

So I wrote my dissertation on that topic, specifically on mushrooms, and I wrote it with the intention of it being a book. And while I was doing the [00:04:00] writing, I went under many different psychedelic guide trainings. My school is the first above ground psychedelic training at the California Institute of Ventricle Studies.

So I assisted there for two years. I did a four year underground training with the Mazatec mushroom tradition. I mentored a year for the School of Conscious Medicine, did two years of somatic psychotherapy training. So I was in a lot of trainings at the same time while working my doctorate. So by the time I finished the whole process, there was already a lot under my belt to be able to talk about, you know, this topic quite eloquently.

De'Vannon: So did I hear you say that you, that your first above ground psychedelic education came from a biblical school? Did you 

video1136487474: say 

Jahan: biblical? No, California Institute of Integral Studies. So it's a spiritually based accredited graduate class. Like they see spirituality as like a foundation of our existence and it's like a super legit training.

Most likely focuses on therapy, but I was more in the philosophy department. 

De'Vannon: Okay. I, I, I, [00:05:00] I'm totally on board with the integral, but when you said biblical, I was like, wait a minute. For sure. Wait a minute. That's around the corner. I'm 

Jahan: sure biblical psychedelic stuff. I'm sure it's going to be happening pretty soon.

De'Vannon: I was like, let me find out. So I heard you mention the word mysticism. Just in case somebody out there might hear that and get like. Spooked it doesn't know exactly the way you're referencing mysticism. Can you define that please? 

Jahan: Yeah, no, it's definitely a term that probably goes back at least hundreds of years.

The way I break it down is the awareness or coming to communion with God. And God can be defined in many ways. You can call it as an intimacy with the universe, a deeper identity, an expansion of consciousness, a movement towards oneness with everything. It was, that's been a natural inclination and interest since I was a teen, you know, I was atheist for a long time, but there was this deep kind of existential part of me.

And it wasn't until I took mushrooms and kind of this merging with God at 18, that really shifted my life. And I was like, okay, God and [00:06:00] spirituality in Israel, that's a foundation of reality. Let's really move in that direction and understand it more clearly.

De'Vannon: Okay, I was going to ask you about your first mushroom experience that when you were 18, that was that the first time you did it when you had this experience with God? 

Jahan: Yeah, the very first time I did mushrooms was I was 15 at a school trip. We actually went to Los Angeles. I was in theater to see some plays and go to Six Flags and pretty much everybody on the trip took LSD and I was scared at the time.

I'd never done anything. I never even drank alcohol or smoked weed, but I had a lot of FOMO and come 11 o'clock at night. I'm like, okay, somebody have something. Somebody had mushrooms. I took it. The Matrix had just come out. And so what happened was I looked at the walls and it broke into the Matrix code.

And I was like, okay, this is fucking crazy. Then I spent the next three hours contemplating my parents death. I'm like, they're going to die sometime. And so I was like in this deep existential sadness all night. So it was a very deep experience. It wasn't necessarily fun. Then I revisited again a [00:07:00] few times later.

And it wasn't until like, I was just going to go to see my favorite band play. That the set was really setting for like, and I've been contemplating existence now like for a few years non stop that it kind of accumulated this breakthrough of the experience of I'm gonna die, but I'm too curious to stop the process so I let myself die and that's when like, kind of punctured through and kind of really expanded and a voice arose inside and it's like we're eternal we're all made of light.

Love is the most important thing in the universe, followed after that is learning. And everything else is so insignificant to those two things that you never have to worry 

De'Vannon: about them again.

Well, fuck. And this is all on shrooms? Or were you on LSV? I know, right? 

Jahan: No, that was on shrooms. Again, like, super not expected. I thought I was gonna go have fun time at a concert. My life changed upside down within two or three hours. Everything, my life trajectory and what I decided to study, the person I am, the way I saw the world, just three hours.

I was bawling the whole time. I was just like, wow, this is really occurring right now. 

De'Vannon: You know what, there ain't nothin like a motherfuckin new point of view. [00:08:00]Because perspective, perspective is everything. 

Jahan: Yeah. You know. We make our decisions based off perspective, you know? And so, with that change of reality of who I am and what the world is, I made a lot of different decisions 

De'Vannon: moving forward.

How much do you remember about the dosage of shrooms that you did that first time? 

Jahan: Yeah, so somebody I didn't know who I met on the way to the concert just gave me mushrooms. It was that unexpected. I probably took an eighth, a small handful, you know. Again, I wasn't expecting to go hard. I wasn't expecting to have the experience of I'm about to die.

But it kind of just started like the process itself to pull, and I could have stopped it. But it was like, there's like 15 minutes of like, I'm about to die, I'm really, really scared, I'm in the middle of this concert right now, and if I die, everybody's gonna be sad, like my parents, but then I'm like, you know what, I'm way too fucking curious, let's just let go.

So there's like this deep surrendering, the ego death, and it was massive, like shot out into space, I asked what are we as humans, because I was curious, I saw light come out of the [00:09:00] ground and fill every body and realized we are light. You know, so it shifted my sense of self and what we are here as humans and what we're here to do, 

De'Vannon: which is feel love.

That's a beautiful experience. I'm so glad you have it. You have a high sensitivity to shrooms. And so so yeah, when he says an eighth, he's meaning like 3. 5 grams. Specifically my first shroom experience, it took me seven grams for me to feel anything. I have a high tolerance to them. And so LSD, LSD works far easier for me.

Like 20 minutes, 20 minutes and everything is fucking swirling.

Jahan: It's totally, totally. You know, having, 

De'Vannon: no, you, you're the guest, speak, speak, speak. Yeah, 

Jahan: given, given, you know, I've had hundreds of journeys myself, and I've been fortunate to do this work legally in Jamaica, and there's this weird thing of, of course, there's a correlation with those, absolutely.[00:10:00]

But sometimes I've had huge breakthroughs off some smaller doses, like two hits of LSD, and there's times I've had like seven hits of LSD and none had gone as deep. And so what I've learned, and it's beyond our explanation, like sometimes there's a portal open. Sometimes we're more sensitive to other times with substances, you know?

So there's times I can go really, really high with a substance and like, Eh, it's okay. And other times, for some reason, we're at a point where we just need a little push and we're 

De'Vannon: ready to break through. Has there been any studies done that you know of, or have you noticed any trends on whether or not this has to do with Say, like, if you're working with a female, her menstrual cycle, or on all genders, the phases of the moon, or an eclipse.

Jahan: Yeah. You know, I am there's definitely has not been studies on this. That would be a fascinating study. What I have seen is some correlation of difference between genders. Females tend to be more sensitive. And I think a big reason for that is their menstrual cycle. It puts them more in touch with their body.

They have [00:11:00] to be in touch with their body a lot more than the men. And because of that, there's more sensitivity in general. So I find females are more sensitive generally to all substances, whether it's alcohol, whether it's caffeine. Right. And so I tend to get females a little bit less mushrooms because it goes a lot further.

Males, you know, male, it tends to be a little bit more dense with our body and our connection with ourselves. And we're generally have a bigger body type, so it takes a lot more. So I tend to get males a little bit more mushrooms.

De'Vannon: Hmm. I would thank you for that, because I hate being in a ceremony or somewhere where they're giving us all, or that I think they might be giving us all, like, the same dose or something like that, because if I'm going down the bar there, I want to feel the shit. Like, I'm trying to be like fucking Pluto some goddamn way, okay?

Other than that, I could have stayed at home.

So in case you're wondering, those of you watching on YouTube where he's got these beautiful dazzling eyes from.

He's [00:12:00] part Iranian and part Mexican, and so, you know, he is, he is a man of color right here, and so doing the damn thing is psychedelic, so. 

Jahan: Yeah, I think so. I feel like there's, of course, I care, and I feel moved to help all people, and I think there is this natural movement to help people from where your kind of history is from, your lineage.

And it's amazing, for example, to see Persians have generally be very traditional Islamic getting really into it. And so I've been on a Persian podcast twice, and they speak in Farsi, and my dad, I even got my dad on because I've held journeys for my father, who's also completely never would have been in this much of a business.

And then the other side, where I want to spend a lot next few years researching was that of the Aztecs. And people may not know, but before the colonization of the U. S., there were 70 million Americans already here, North, Central, and South America. Huge tribes that came 20, 000 years ago. And all evidence shows that they were really highly psychedelic for thousands of years.

So we have these huge psychedelic cultures and [00:13:00] they were fairly much erased. So diseases came over from the Europeans and 90% of the population died. That's 63 million people. That was the largest kind of genocide in human history. So I think there's a lot of there where we can kind of a depth of human psychedelic culture that we can like revive, you know, with the indigenous here of this land.

De'Vannon: Mm hmm. You don't have us a revival y'all. Yeah. And so. Yeah. Okay. Speaking of, yeah, fuck yeah, man. Fuck yeah. I just felt like we were on an episode of Simple Park. I just got really Simple Park vibes for a moment. Fuck yeah. Let's do it! So speaking of history, I'm going to read a little excerpt from... From his book.

Y'all know I like to do my reading time in honor of Mama RuPaul, who always says reading is fundamental. And so let's just get a little bit fundamental. So from Jahan's book he's, he's telling us in his, from his research that the first Documented Westerner to intentionally take psilocybin [00:14:00]mushrooms was Gordon Wasson, the vice president of J.

P. Morgan who encountered psilocybin mushrooms while in the Mazatec tradition, which Jahan has mentioned already back in 1955. Wasson, he was a Wall Street banker. He was keenly interested in mycology, which is the study of fungi. And so he took his ass on down to Oaxaca and convinced Marina Sabina the the Mazac, the Mazac Curandera, to let him participate in the mushroom ceremony.

I saw this shit on a documentary, because after he took his ass down there and did that, they got in trouble and I think their house got burned down or some shit. 

Jahan: Yeah, no, right. I mean, so it was a big deal. Again, it was the most unlikely person that you would think to go down there and do this, but he had swell finances, and the first time he went, he was a photographer, took a lot of pictures, and two years later, published it in Life [00:15:00] Magazine, right?

And that was the first time on a global level, culture at large became our psychedelics. A lot of people got interested, you know, many big names, including like Timothy Leary, who was heading into psychology at Harvard at the time, went down there and then started the hybrid soul side of mushroom studies and brought LSD to a larger culture.

A lot of rock stars went and a lot of the people kind of helped move, like, create a lot of the hippie movement. So what happened? A few years later, at any given moment, there was 70, 80, like, hippies and a lot of just rural seeking people wanting to get high that went to Huala de Jimenez the main city of the Mazatecs.

And the people that lived there thought their culture was getting ruined. You know, it wasn't respected, it wasn't seen, people were just camping out, it was getting trashed. And so the culture, and the culture dates back, it seems like a few thousand years. The people of the village got really mad at Maria Sabina because they let the Westerners in, and it was crashing their culture and their history.

And so they burnt down her house. And maybe related or not, her son was [00:16:00] also killed, you know, we don't know all the details of that. And so later on in life, she had a lot of resentment over what happened. She did heal somewhat, and during the 80s, while she was still alive, she spent a lot of time training people, like therapists, to start doing this mushroom work, you know?

So, it's not that she went all the way bitter. She did help people. And now there's a major holiday every year. There's a Maria Sabina parade where the Mazatecs get together and about a couple of hundred people walk and make a parade. And now she's celebrated as a Saint there. So even though at the time she was really kind of put down because of, she let out the secret.

Now they see her as somebody that brought her, their culture to the world, you know, and they really take pride in who she is. 

De'Vannon: Change is a motherfucker for most people. However, I do get The way that went kind of reminds me of like Avatar, like the blue people avatar, not, not the anime avatar. And for fuck's sake, not that train wreck that M.

Night Shyamalan put out in theaters. Not that thing. [00:17:00] That just didn't happen. We just don't even know her. But, but, you know, the concept they like of Avatar, and I was just watching Way of the Water last night, it's all about white people showing up and fucking shit up. You know, where did they, in the name of research.

You know, not, not necessarily going like, Hey, we hate you and we're coming to burn you down, but you're just so fucking, I guess we just had, we ain't got shit else to do with our lives. So we got to go over here and learn about what you're doing, which is how the world ends, but there is destruction that comes along with it.

And Maria's story is exactly like Avatar to me, you know, she let them in. They did something he didn't necessarily approve of, and then shit literally burned to the ground, just like it did in Avatar, they lit the shit on fire. Yeah, 

Jahan: you know, so part of the thinking, and of course, you know, just to put the disclaimer straight, it's not because people's color, and you know, just saying that's why, but there was [00:18:00] something, my feeling, why did this specific kind of culture, European, kind of colonize a lot of the world, and some to what I feel it comes down to is, They kind of assumed a sense of superiority over everything and everybody, including other belief systems and ways of life.

And there's a good book called Shaman Through Time, 500 Years of Shamanism, by Jeremy Narby, who's a doctor at Stanford in anthropology. And he shares how the West saw shamanism and how it changed over 500 years, where at first, because of this kind of belief in superiority of, including of Christianity, of like, we've got the way, they saw shamans as devil worshipers.

And so then they had a right to kill shamans. Because they're on the side of the devil. So that's that's what happens when people came over here to the West for the first time. Then over time, they saw them as imposters, you know, and people that kind of just kind of tricked people. And then as psychology moved forward in the 1900s, they saw them as proto psychologists, like the first psychologists of the tribes.

Then in the 1960s, 70s, you know, semi anthropologists went and took medicine with these tribes. And I'm like, Oh my God, this is a whole new way of moving through the world. These are wisdom keepers and cosmologists. And so then we started to [00:19:00] grow respect. So that took a long time. So now when people go to, cultures really change.

So now when they go visit these tribes, people come with reverence and respect. In the past, they'd go, like, these people don't know anything, they're uncivilized, we're gonna trash it, we're better as a peer. And so, there's a massive shift that's occurred, but I think it's ultimately came down from a sense of superiority, instead of coming to know somebody else, that was like a big part of 

De'Vannon: the problem.

You know what, it's all worked out now, you know, thank God for the ability to take even the most negative of circumstances and turn them to good. For sure. That transformational power there. So. So this, so this JPMorgan Chase executive Wesson goes on to write about his first mushroom experience, referring to it as geometric patterns, enriches colors, then the patterns grew into architectural structures, patios of regal splendor.

All harmoniously and ingeniously contrived, there is no better way to describe the sensation than to say, [00:20:00] it was as though my very soul had been scooped out of my body and translated to a point floating in space, leaving behind the husk of clay. Now, I'm with him on the geometric patterns, because when I did and I'm with him on all of it, because this was his experience, and he probably had some of that good shit.

Okay, bye. Bye. Okay. So, when the mushroom, they took like, fucking all day for the mushrooms to make it through my system. And then when it finally did hit, it was like, the trees out here in this wilderness that I was in did turn into like, almost like a mandala, almost, of like, geometric patterns and things like that.

And so, I totally get it. I totally get that. Can you talk to us about what is happening to the rewiring of the brain when somebody is doing mushrooms? 

Jahan: Yeah, it's such an inherently layer. So the MRI studies have found is it creates a hyperconnected brain state. [00:21:00] One of the reasons being is it acquires what's called the default mode network.

And neuroscientists call the default mode network the ego part of the brain, the network. So you think me, me, me, I, I, I, which. That's most people's regular kind of habitual thought, a specific network lights up, and it seems to act as a repressive function for the rest of the subconscious, the sense of ego itself.

And so when that voice quiets down this network, the whole brain actually lights up like a symphony and hyper connects and unifies, which I think correlates with this experience of unity. As people feel wellness in their brain, they feel wellness in the environment. And it seems to also stimulate what's called neurogenesis, the growth of new neurons, the brain physically begins to grow and heal, and dendrites, known as spinogenesis.

So it seems to be like brain food, it's neurotropic, and maybe, you know, people know that the middle part of my book, which was like the heart of it, is this deep theory that was perhaps a relationship with psilocybin mushrooms that catapulted human evolution itself, including culture and brain development.

Because now we know it grows the brain and the idea is that our ancestors, our first primate ancestors, [00:22:00] used it millions of times, over millions of years, or in the savannas of Africa, and that created, you know, language and imagination to the depth that we have it, and logic. So it seems to... Yeah, create more unity within ourselves and within our culture, and a lot of inspiration.

Specifically, in the sense of unity, it simulates what's known as synesthesia, where senses become conflated, where people hear a sound, but they see a color, right? So everything inside unifies. And the idea, that's how even language started. You know, all of a sudden, symbols and noise and meaning conflated, and we have the creation of language and art.

De'Vannon: And that's the tea right there on that motherfucking topic. I love the way you broke that down. I'm gonna, I'm just gonna read some of the the sections of your book so people can get like a taste from it. My favorite one is this part called Transcendence. Because like, I love that Maslow's, he has the Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs in that book too.

I'm trying to reach that self transcendence, which is above self [00:23:00] actualization. I am trying to reach the avatar state. I'm trying to get my ball headed ass glow on, bitch. Okay, I'm trying to have all of that happen. He has in here an ecology of synergy. How fucking beautiful is that? Gaia and living systems theory, symbiosis, revisioning evolution, fungi, animals and psychedelics, the ecological self, from the trees to planting seeds and psilocybin and brain development.

Contrast with other theories of human evolution, y'all. This shit is quite deep. Visionary art and culture, philosophy and science, science, psychedelic economics with fucking cryptocurrency, blockchain, and psychedelic. So, basically everything, all the things, 

Jahan: okay? Yeah, I mean, it was years and years of research.

Yeah, totally, totally, to 

De'Vannon: put it all together. I can see why, you know, why Penguin Random House wanted to [00:24:00] You don't want it to go on ahead and you know, make it rain on you. Oh, thanks, Doug. With you know, with, with, with having this, this option here for you, I want to know, like, in your personal life, for, for yourself, has mushrooms helped you to overcome any sort of mental health issues and what are some of the mental health struggles that you personally struggle with?

Yeah, 

Jahan: no, it's been a lot. So, they've probably saved my life, right? Like, the biggest shift was. This truth that like God or some sense of unit of consciousness exists because it changes the foundation metaphysically of everything and it creates a personal relationship to the universe, right? And then again, that everything's spiritual that I feel like one of the main big insights is that everything's interconnected and I grew up with immigrant parents that were both illegal in this country for a long time.

And because of the school system and the way things unfolded I had a deep sense of not belonging and a lot of depression, right? So very suicidal at a young age. This healed my sense of [00:25:00] self. So I've worked with most of the people that come to you psychedelics. Therapeutically, they're dealing with depression and what I've seen at the core of depression is I don't like myself and I don't belong.

And if you're forced to be somebody you don't like, life is inherently depressing. If you really like yourself, life is pleasurable, right? So, so that's a big difference. So I've got to shift my identity. I've got to shift the way I see the world. I know my value system like loves the most important thing in the universe by far.

So I really prize my relationship. So it's really organized my psyche in my life. Yeah. And so it's not that I still don't struggle or things because, you know, we inherit things both genetically and culturally, you know, there's intergenerational trauma, it's like healing is a lifelong thing but I would be nowhere near as I am without the help of psychedelics I love therapy, I love yoga, meditation, but talking only goes so deep, you know, and so when you're in this deep space, you're kind of communion with nature at large, and it like shows you things and teaches you stuff that I feel it'd be hard to get from other 

De'Vannon: humans.

So yeah.

You're [00:26:00] right when you say talk therapy only goes so far. I'm really touch and go. Like, we were talking before the, before we started recording it, you know, you had asked me about what I had gone through this year and why I'm making some of the changes that I'm going to be making. Well, I have made a lot, many are happening today as we speak, and there's going to be a lot happening throughout the rest of this year.

When I go into these groups, people who have dealt with codependency issues and sex addicts and trying to overcome the abuse from these people. It's like I can only take so much because there's easy it's easy and talk therapy to get into this trap of just hearing yourself talk about the problem, rather than to actually go about the business of fixing and resolving.

The problem and and what I love about psychedelic therapy. It's about resolution. You know, it's about okay. We re re rewriting the stars rewriting the energy, not nursing it and babysitting it. So, there's people [00:27:00] say in a narcissistic support groups that I might have attended in the past. Okay. It's been 5 years since.

They, this happened. Are they, are they left this person? On the one hand, I'm like, I'm glad you have this support group. The other hand, on the other hand, I'm like, bitch, why the fuck are you still talking about it? You know, five damn years later, at what point are we going to, you know, you know, push past, you know, and so everything in the psychedelic circles is about closing old doors, opening new ones, not making a pet out of the pain that we have been through, and that happens far too much.

Yeah, no, I think, I think 

Jahan: really well said, I think a lot of people when they first show up for the work and this is understandable because the way therapy is structured, they're like, they're like, finally, I want to deal with my shit. Let's go into the darkness. And I'm like, that's good because the darkness might come up.

You might have guilt, shame, horror, fear, trauma, sadness, shame, like you might have to. But what [00:28:00] I've seen overall, it's actually been more affected is yeah. If things naturally move more towards the positive emotions if people feel deep love and peace Sometimes it's the first time they've ever felt that i've heard this so many times.

Oh my god I've never felt peace like this before now They have a new point of reference for what is possible Like if somebody's that's what happened to me out of my darkness It's like I felt like life was this dark tunnel my whole life and I finally had this experience of merging with light Now I know that's real now I know it's just a tunnel and this is not what life is just like endless darkness and so What I've seen is people that shoots them out of this dark tunnel is the emerging of positive emotions.

That's generally more helpful and it's so not expected and it's not the way therapy normally works. You get it? So it breaks the pattern in there. You're like, Oh my God, I finally feel safe. I've never felt safe before. Now I know safety is possible. And you start moving in that direction. 

De'Vannon: So have you seen in the practices, like you said, you do this down and down in Jamaica.

Have you seen, you know, you're a positive [00:29:00] minded person and you have like, This in you so You know, a large part of me wants to believe or feels like this was just waiting to be awakened, okay, within you. But what about somebody who has a darkness to them, say like a serial killer somebody who is a part of the, like, maybe like the dark triad of psychological problems, you know, maybe they are a fucking sociopath, or maybe they are somebody who beats their wife, you know.

I want, I want your opinion on this. Because some people, you know, society will throw away, and as much as I dis, I harbor a lot of like, you know, get the fuck away from me, from people who like hurt people, but at the same time, there's still people, okay? And I don't believe anybody is beyond the change if they want it.

[00:30:00] So, it can't just work like you drop some shrooms or any sort of psychedelic on anybody. And they're, and they're guaranteed to have like a breakthrough like you or I did, some part of us was open to that and ready. So do you think it's possible for somebody who's actively living in a state of hurting other people to actually get this sort of evolution right here, what we're talking about?

It's definitely 

Jahan: possible. I've seen and felt sometimes with people with a huge inclination towards narcissism, it takes a lot longer because they're really holding on to a sense of self and ego, and they're fighting the thing like they numb themselves out so much to who they really are, that even though they take the psychedelics, they don't notice much change.

But yes, it's possible. And just to kind of expand on this topic I think part of the deep work is embracing darkness, right? Like we are the yin and yang if we don't embrace darkness fully we project it outside We think other people are dark and we live in this kind of good versus evil reality And so i've had a lot of really really dark journeys, but they've [00:31:00] really really freed me And so what i've seen is there's no real kind of feeling.

There's no evil in the universe It's just a projection of darkness outside what i've seen at the root of what we call evil is just deep deep deep selfishness Right. And like, so hurting other people for the sake of your own pleasures, like the most evil thing I could think of, like the Machiavellian psychopath, like, Oh, seeing other people hurt brings me pleasure.

And that's the reality. It's just, I'm using the resources and everybody around me for my sense of self. So it's really comes out extreme selfishness. And we need a balance between self and other. And so what I can see that can be healing is the death and transformation of that sense of self. And that's where we get to the transcendence piece that you're talking about the mass flow, where we realize we really all are one, like we're one self.

So there's no hurting other. That's hurting you. We're the same being and once you start paying attention, there's all these, you know, might sound strange to our people, but karmic feedback, anything that you go out, do outside, it kind of comes back to you because the universe is trying to teach you that we're that interconnected and we're that one of a consciousness.

So unless people have that deep realization, they're stuck in this pattern of feeling [00:32:00] isolated and selfish, right? But if you realize we're the other side of the planet affects this side. We see that with climate change and economics, then you really start to behave differently and the focus becomes to help people because we're all the same at a deep core essential level.

De'Vannon: Yeah, that's something Madonna learned in in her journey. And one, a line from one of her songs says, you know, everyone suffers the same. It was a very, like, not very, like, widely publicized song, but What you see is not necessarily what you get. Eyes are the window to your soul. Take your judgments and let them go.

Oh, I love it. It's beautiful. This song, and only the big Madonna fans even know what the fuck I'm talking about right now. So yes, so we are very much all connected. We all do rejoice the same and we suffer the same [00:33:00] once our awareness is open to see that. But the thing about it, that is whether or not a person realizes it or not doesn't change the fact that it's happening.

Jahan: They might be stuck in a prison and create hell for themselves and other people. But like you said, it just comes down to perception. If they see themselves as isolated or other people are eager for themselves and they start creating that reality. Unless, you know, the other opposite is like, we're unified.

This is heaven. We're here to grow and learn. And then, so then that shifts your entire orientation towards yourself and other people. 

De'Vannon: What I have observed is I have stepped away from the darkness of these past few years as I have been evolving intensely in order for me to create the future that I want.

And I'm talking to people who are people of light and how consciously trying to be that. I feel myself drawing to other people, such as yourself, people who, who think consciously in things, things like that, because I cannot be [00:34:00] around anything that is opposite of a conscious living. And I'm, and I begin to look at everything as, as, as an inner energetic transaction, because really that's what it is.

So I don't know if it was all the prayers I've been praying in here on my knees to the Holy Ghost. I don't know if it was the damn tobacco tea, the LSD, or whatever, because I threw it all, I threw it all against the wall because I needed a change. And something done stuck, okay? Because something's definitely shifted.

So I'm going to give people something very, very practical. So like, there's two bars in this town that I've been going to, like, for the last ten years. Okay. That I used to go to back when I was lonely, I used to go there always trying to look for a boyfriend or a partner, some sort of friend or whatever, because my emotions were all like fucked up, which they're not anymore.

And I realized that, you know, it's still the same damn people going to that bar with the same intentions, which aren't entirely pure, not saying the bar is evil, but for [00:35:00] me, and for a lot of people, it's like the energy is stuck there because it's not that much variance. And so I decided I'm not going to go there anymore.

Okay. And what I did with that was by closing that door, I was able to open the path to new doors because that's energy. I'm not putting in a place. That's not really profiting me anything that I can calculate. Other than the hopes that something's going to happen if I go to the same damn bar again. It's been ten years, bitch.

No, it's not. If it's been one year, you know, bitch, it's still not. The thing is, you have to bring the newness, and you have to put yourself in new positions. The more, Jahan, that I've started to say no to old places I used to go, different opportunities manifest themselves. There is something, there's something Madonna said creation comes when you learn to say no.

Beautiful, man. I love it. What do you think about the power of the creation that comes with the no? Yeah, 

Jahan: yeah, yeah. It took me a [00:36:00] while. First it took me a while to learn into my yes, and then I started saying yes a lot. And it was beautiful, then you start hitting the limits of that. And then there's that shift of saying no to something and saying yes to something else, you know, like, strengthening your boundaries is a way to maintain your power and your sovereignty and self respect, and so there's a lot of the power in saying no, and then it keeps, like you said, your energy available for something mysterious that may arise, you know, if you're at that bar at that time.

You can't be somewhere else. You're hanging out with a specific person. You can't be hanging out with somebody else. And so if you're definitely doing putting your energy into something that's depleting you, that has a huge consequence. And it's, it's like, I, I used to go out to look for partners all the time.

And you were constantly going out seeking, you're depleting energy over and over and over. You're putting more energy out than you're getting back, you know? So there's a sense of loss that happens in self esteem and power. And so I like the self preservation of that. It'll gather your power. And from that place, I think a lot of new things can emerge.

De'Vannon: The same thing goes with apps. I warn people against using hookup apps, sex apps all the time. [00:37:00] I see that with the apps. 

Jahan: I've gone there. 

De'Vannon: Energy 

Jahan: dumpster. You're just drained and you're like, wow. It's not as reciprocal 

De'Vannon: at all.

You know, when I ended this relationship that I was in at first, I was all pissed off because I wasn't going to be able to be like having like the companion that I had and especially like the sex that I was used to having. But then I realized after I got done having a fit over that, that this is a beautiful thing.

To actually not have the same thing that I had for the last four and a half years. I got accustomed to it. And so I was whining like a baby because it was over. But then once I settled into it, I was like, well, this is creation. This is all new. So what? I've been having sex consistently. I'm just not going to have it for the next year or two or whatever.

And that's totally fucking fine. That is empowering to me. Rather than acting like I can't live without something because that would say very bad things about me If I can't go without anything for as long as I decide I want to [00:38:00] I love the mind 

Jahan: shift It is very empowering and very freeing. I love that seeing it as a gift instead of a loss.

That's amazing, man 

De'Vannon: Now, you know, it took a couple of months. It took a couple of months. I hear you. Oh, at first, at first, mom was not pleased. I was like, this is some bullshit. But, you know, I have me a prostate, I have me a prostate massager now. The dildos do the job just fine, honey. Trust me. Oh, good.

Beautiful. And then, and then, and then there's a... And then there's a reengaging. I, I removed every app, all that stupid Twitter porn, all porn, all anything that has to do and all of those social media profiles where the guys are working out and their shirtless or they got like their dicks hanging out bulging and whatever.

Anything that's like a sexual connotation like that, I realize is super distracting and it's like a negative energy trying to, to drain me and that's like, I'm not gaining anything from this. Those guys are probably super [00:39:00] insecure anyway, and I don't even want to feed into that. And so I pushed it all the way so that my mind can be cleansed and I can re engage relationships, human sexuality, and everything brand fucking new whenever I do.

And so I've entered a void where none of that is around me. Dude, I'm proud 

Jahan: of you. That's a lot of strength, because I know how attractive and magnetic they are. That's a big 

De'Vannon: thing to pull away. They are attractive and magnetic, but it occurred to me that that is not good, good energy that's drawing me in.

It appears as good, but it's seductive. It is not, it's not true to its form. And so I'm saying all that to say, y'all, is when you decide to take these sort of leaps and bounds in your The, the, the positivity that can come, you can come in the form of ideas, okay? It may not be a person, and I, I preach all the time, y'all stop seeking fulfillment in a fucking human.

Like, you have got to get it from, from like, God, from within yourself. You cannot look to a human to make you happy, you're never gonna fucking be happy. And [00:40:00] you gotta go out and meet the world already happy and accepting yourself, not trying to get it from an experience with somebody. Or with a thing ideas have come can come to you if you sit down and be quiet and be still, but they can if you're always up and moving around.

And so what do you think about about the power of stillness?

Jahan: You know, I've gone through different periods of meditation and they were partly catapulted because of psychedelics, you know, that like the same message kept coming through of like, have it part of your daily practice. And there's times where I've gone through like five years without missing it. And because of COVID, I got out of my regular ritual, you know, I do like maybe 15 minutes a week right now of like focused meditation while before it was like, I went from 20 minutes a day.

And there's a period I would did an hour, then two hours and three hours a day for like several months, you know, so there's tons of going in. And so I know and I've experienced the accumulation of subtlety that [00:41:00] happens if you have a sustained practice, you know, there was a time where I did this again, I've got many years in and out where I realized I wasn't as connected to my body.

And so the main meditation focus I came was sensing my body, like spending 20 to 40 minutes, just feeling my body. And I saw the capacities that changed quickly over two weeks, over two months, over two years where. All of a sudden I can feel every muscle muscle. I could feel every organ. I could feel every fiber.

I could feel my energetic system. My intuition increased. Like you said, the access to more ideas, I became more in tune with everything around me, right? I became more sensitive. So this thing, the anchors need a reality and therefore to all of reality. So it has a massive payoff, you know, if we can sit there, otherwise we're distracted by everything that pops up in our mind and just making decisions off of those, instead of like connecting of like, what's my deep truth right now, you know, I'm from that subtle to listening to that deeper intuition that's inside.

De'Vannon: Yes, y'all, do what Jahan is telling you and listen, slow down and listen, listen, listen, [00:42:00] listen. And and probably do you some fucking shrooms. You know, probably you want to reach out to Jahan and find out where these Jamaica retreats are. You know, you know, and, you know, and see what can be done because if talk therapy is not working, and I'm really against medicated, psych, psych, medic, medication. Okay, because there's no healing in that.

It just suppresses it. Which is what the fuck talk therapy can do too, it just depends. But we have so many different options, y'all. So many fucking different options. How many different types or strands of mushrooms are there? 

Jahan: When it comes to psilocybin mushrooms, there's at least 200 worldwide. And so we're talking that the same compounds in it, it's just a different species.

And a lot of different species have the very variation and dosage, you know, some are four times stronger than other ones. You know one of the many reasons I focus on that psychedelic is because it's so accessible worldwide, you know, like grows on every continent, but Antarctica. And now people have come [00:43:00] really good at growing it.

You know, I have friends out there, including if you go to the website, michaelrisingfungi. com, my friend, Seth set up an entire workshop for a hundred dollars to teach you how to grow mushrooms. And for people that are also looking how to get into this more we wanted to create a free training for people, especially in lower socioeconomic and minority communities.

They can't afford a therapist and God, they don't have access. They can't go to Jamaica. And so we created a free four hour online training to help people sit for each other. You know, so you can find that at silo health dot C O like P S I L health dot C O. And it's like nine different modules. You know, people want to get into this and this way they could do it with their friends, you know, and at least coming with like a lot of harm reduction 

De'Vannon: techniques.

If you send me both of those websites, or you can put them in the chat now or email them to me, I'll put them in the way that everybody can have them. And then if I think about it, when I do the social media posts for this, then I'll list those websites as well, but for sure, but for sure, they'll [00:44:00] go in the show notes.

Yeah, thanks. But then it's 

Jahan: just like. Go ahead. Let's like the whole world deserves access right now. They cost a lot like once we're moving towards federal legalization It looks like 2003 to 2024 to 25 like federal legal across the u. s for medical use And because it's still new and people got to get trained and it's going to cost a lot of clinics It looks like for example mdma's and it costs twelve to fifteen thousand dollars.

That'll include three journeys. Psilocybin might be something similar so even though we're moving towards legalization, it won't necessarily be accessible because right now the the The protocol is you need two therapists per person, a medical doctor on site and some more person can sleep because as it moves through FDA, there's a lot of fear around this.

So the safety profile has to be really, really, really high, even though a lot of these things are safe and it costs a lot of money and moving towards FDA legalization that's taken like 20 years has costed. Many many millions, you know tens of millions and so all that money needs to be made So it's going to cost a lot for a while so then people can find other access, you [00:45:00] know They could do it through ceremonies through religious rites.

There's like probably I imagine maybe 70 different psychedelic churches across the u. s Now where you can do this legally under the protection of a religion, you know So there's many ways to find access because every person that wants access deserves 

De'Vannon: access I know that's right. I'm here for some accessibilities.

So, y'all, what I'm gonna do is find me the right mushroom strand that's gonna have me both floating above the planet or some shit in the Avatar state getting my motherfuckin glow on. Okay, just call me Aang, bitch. Just call me motherfuckin Aang. I'm about to motherfuckin get my shroomy life together. So, I mentioned, like, you like my sexual changes and sexuality.

Like that in the power of saying no to pleasure delayed gratification in order to enhance the spirit. What is the intersectionality of psilocybin mushrooms in sex? In human sexuality, 

Jahan: it's definitely a deep interest of [00:46:00] mine. I've done seven different taunter trainings like trainings and sexuality. I've done many talks on sex and psychedelics and people can still find them ones that the the San Francisco psychedelic society on the website.

It's like 500 people showed up to that training and talk and people could still buy it. I've done one for synthesis. And so I've talks out there on the topic. Because I find it as an absolutely fascinating intersection. One, I feel the main evolutionary pull and it's clear in psychedelics is towards unity, towards a sense of oneness with ourselves, other people, the environment, the planet, God, the universe, the whole thing.

And then sexuality, since I have a very similar focus, it's a union towards with another person or with your own being and sexual energy. From a Tantric perspective, sexuality is a core of your soul, like you're created out of sexual energy, your body's created out of sexual energy, and there's a lot of traditions that show, to really show your vitality, your intelligence, your strength, all of it, your power, we have to integrate our sexuality.

And that's been left out of a lot of spiritual traditions, like, there's a lot of shame around it. And so, [00:47:00] a lot of my sexual awakening happened because of psychedelics. I'm like, oh my god, this is me on a deep soul level. As I keep going deeper, we find sexual energy at the big bang. You know, the more deeper I got in touch with my body, there's a deep vitality there.

And so, to learn how to work with it, integrate it, wake it up, is huge! And then some of the most experiences that's been in my life is taking psychedelics with partners and moving in that direction, you know, it's just like you're like cosmically connected, you know, visually on a deep level archetypally energetically.

So I think it's a fascinating area. The healing potential is ginormous and where the shadow is, is the trauma and abuse levels ginormous, right? So like something that's possibly. We might see that's the shadow of this work is people move towards psychedelics in therapeutical settings. Therapists might cross boundaries.

And we've seen that with a lot of shamanic traditions where women will go to South America. The shamans intoxicate them. The women are feeling very sexual and the men crosses the boundary. So there's shadow there. [00:48:00] But the potential for healing and liberation is fucking huge and that's good I think it's gonna take some time for culture to get used to that intersection Because it can actually be so liberating and freeing 

De'Vannon: right in the and and so where you have a light side of something of a dark Side of something so yeah Like how johan is saying like how sex can be beautiful and everything like that and you were created from sex, you know from sexual energy when sex is perverted as much as society does Through apps and movies and shows and how people just go out there all willy nilly and sleep with whoever and don't know who they are, what sort of energy this person is bringing to the table.

They just look good and were willing and then everything just unfolded from there. When you misuse the beautiful gift of sex, I believe people do a lot of harm to themselves mentally, spiritually, emotionally. Because I see people do this, they're having all the sex with all the [00:49:00] people and they're yet all the more insecure.

They still don't know who they are, and they have nothing to show for it except for a bunch of orgasms and possibly STDs, and just more insecurity, and I'm just kind of like, hmm, so when are you going to stop running from who you are and actually, like, face... The answer is not in bed with a whole bunch of different people, because, and I say this all the time, like, humans didn't invent sex, like you just said, it's an energetic thing, so humans, therefore, cannot rewrite the dynamics of sex.

As we stated earlier, just as somebody is in consciousness of the way energy is flowing or the way spiritual laws and dynamics work does not deactivate them. So that means that when people say stupid shit like they're gonna go have meaningless sex or it didn't mean anything, it was just something to go do.

Okay, no, you don't get to do that. Like, you went and engaged and you crossed auras, you crossed spirits with people, you took on their energy, they took on yours. [00:50:00] I don't care if it was one minute, if you spent all night with them, you are now a part of them and they are a part of you no matter how little or how much you did.

Because sex is something that was not created by people. And, and it is super powerful. And when people abuse it, I think that this is, I, I, I think it, it, I think it has a lot to do with how broken a lot of males are. Okay. Because sex is easy to get. They tie way too much of their identity into it, then they abuse it, and then now they don't seem, they, they now, they can't even much, they, they, they have no idea what it means to be a man.

I mean, 

Jahan: I, you know, resonate with so much, you know, as I shared, like, I had a hard life, especially put in a very suicidal, depressed, so like a lot of low self esteem. And I focused on a lot of sexuality and sleeping people during my 20s. And at the end of the 20s, I slept with a lot of people. And I was like, what was that about?

I was searching for love, but that's not what's happening. I just having a lot of one night stands. And I came to realize, Oh, my [00:51:00] God, it was all about self esteem. I was getting validated every time. Every time I slept with somebody, I felt good and worthy, you know, and then once that clarity came, I'm like, dude, just focus on self esteem, like, focus on liking yourself and making yourself feel good and confident and finding that security.

That's what you're actually trying to feed. And since then, I realized that's what's happening most of the time, you know, it's like people are trying to you. Like in Maslow's hierarchy, self esteem is before self actualization, so everybody's unconsciously looking for self esteem, whether it is Facebook, Twitter, getting likes, looking at a certain way, a certain car, everybody's trying to feel good about themselves, and you need to feel good enough about yourself to become who you really are deep inside, you know?

And I saw sexuality is just one route that people have been doing, but once you see that's the actual thing that you're trying to feed, then you just focus on 

De'Vannon: that. It's about knowledge. It's about learning. The truth. People are not supposed to be used as our self-esteem prompts. And I'm not judging you for what you did

Oh, no, totally. I didn't. No, that was Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. But, but no, we're not supposed to go and feel like, I want to have sex [00:52:00] with you so I can feel good about me. You know, you that's, yeah. I'm unconscious. Yeah, no, totally. So 

Jahan: I feel that's what happens a lot, but it's just, we just weren't aware.

Right. You know, and of course sex feels good. But I saw that was part of the unconscious 

De'Vannon: motivation. So then the warning there, y'all, it's not everything that feels good is necessarily good. You have to pay attention. Like, you could give somebody a sweet poison. You know, just because it tastes good and you can make that poison make them feel good and they won't know anything until they're looking at Jesus that you had killed them.

So we cannot, we can only attribute so much to the way things feel. Emotions are very deceiving. And the way that we feel in our bodies about every little thing might not be right, so. Consciousness is everything. Sex is beautiful. It is a gorgeous thing, but we have to put our minds and our conscious intentions back into it, stop doing it super quick, take our time, get to know people, and then we can have what you were talking about, how when [00:53:00] you had those partners and it was like mind, body, soul, spirit, cosmic.

I've had that experience once. In my life and that was since I left the narcissist that I had to get away from with this individual who I had an ongoing conversation with for a while before we ever did anything. And we were on weed, we weren't even on drugs, but we were that connected because he and I did not mind talking about the spirit and different things like that.

And we weren't going to like get married or nothing like that, but it was just the fact that, that, that, that we had the awareness and the acknowledgement of spiritual things. And when we linked up, I, I, I, it was like that whole, we were connected on three different levels. It was mind, soul, body. It was, it was unlike anything ever in my whole life.

It wasn't about how fast paced the sex was or how slow it was. It wasn't all porn to start with. It wasn't like none of that bullshit on Pornhub. Fuck it. I don't care how popular this shit is. This shit is damaging [00:54:00] humans. This was some other level shit. You know, like, like what you were just talking about.

And I felt so, like, robbed, you know, maybe of all the other experiences that I had had before. I was like, this here is the Ferrari of sex. Okay, this, this is how it's supposed to be. You really like the word spiritual first, you know, the dick and all the actual sexual actions. I didn't even remember that, you know, hardly when it was over.

It was more about like, the energy, the electricity of it all. Or at least I knew at that point I had changed and my expectations moving forward had shifted. So y'all, what I'm saying is no matter how big of a hoe you used to be, you can turn all that shit around and throw some Consciousness into your sex life and actually evolve.

Don't you want to stop feeding your energy into empty activities that you already know are just going to leave you feeling more empty when it's done? [00:55:00] You know the thoughts you think when no one's in that dark ass house with you. Come on. Now, I'm glad you're not suicidal anymore, Jahan. I'm glad you were able to.

Oh, no, me 

Jahan: too. 

De'Vannon: We need you alive. 

Jahan: Yeah, I think there's a natural evolution where I mean, I think the more you become aware of something, your body does respond and you change. Where over the last five years, I've gone to several, because like sex parties are pretty big here in the Bay Area. And how things have changed or before I was able to have a one night stand and now, like, I can't even really participate in the bar like parties.

I have to really, really know somebody, you know, and so there's a natural shift. But it's for me, it's developmental. I'm sure it was with you too, you know, as I keep changing, like, my actual inclination in the way I experienced in my body and who I connect to and how we connect shifts. 

De'Vannon: So, yeah. Right. It is.

How did the Bible say it? That, that the Lord will change us here a little, there a little, line upon [00:56:00] line, precept upon precept. So it won't be overnight, but damn it, you have to mean it. And so you have to be getting after it. These changes didn't just drop on us off, you know, a stark didn't bring the shit, you know, we, we chose to, and a big problem that I have with humanity Jahan is that people choose bullshit.

It's like, and then they expect good changes to come just to be given to them. Like they, there's this sense of entitlement when it comes to religion, spirituality, whatever. So a person will get up and go to work, go find someone to sleep with, go find something to drink or drug to do. In a New York fucking minute, because there, there is associated value to those things.

But when it comes to doing deep self work, working on your dark side, your shadow work, you know, trying to, to, to figure out who you are, I mean, seriously figure out who you are. You know, sometimes people can be super casual about that. It's kind of like they'll get to it whenever. Or it's like the, [00:57:00] or it's like people who you, who you don't know, who even give a fuck about God at all.

Then you don't even know the bitch is religious. And then all of a sudden her kid is in the hospital and she's all on Facebook. It's like, can y'all pray for us? I'm like, wait, bitch, you pray? I didn't even know, you know? So people put their energy into, into, people can if they want to. So I just want people to know, like, what we're talking about, you have to mean it.

You have to go after this with super intention, just like you do everything else. It's not just going to happen.

So I want to that's pretty much, that's pretty much the main focus of what I wanted to cover. Your book is so, like, prolific and it just has, like, everything in it. People simply need to go get it. And that's all there is to it. All those links will go in the show notes. He's on Facebook, Instagram. His website is psychedelic [00:58:00] evolution.org.

And I'm also going to put those other two websites that he mentioned. The, the, the, my Corsi Fungi, my, my my Core, my my coing fungi.com and the solo health.com and the show notes also. So before we begin to wrap this up, I just want to know if there's any last words that you have. I'm going to ask you, after you do that, I'm going to ask you three dad jokes.

That's how I end my shows. Oh, funny. And if there's any other thing that you anything that you'd like to say, any last words, and then we'll tell our jokes, and then we'll just... Yeah, I mean, 

Jahan: no, I feel really good. I feel actually fairly complete. Yeah, there's nothing else that comes up. I mean, you people can go with the book.

It's on Audible, right? This is so that's an audio book. You can get it on Amazon as a regular paperback and since it's an e book So it's pretty findable on all the platforms. 

De'Vannon: Abso fucking lutely. Okay, and so dad joke number one. Why did the [00:59:00] math book look so sad? Why did the math book move side? No, no, no.

Why did the, why did the math book look so sad? I'm not 

Jahan: sure. Cause there's a lot of subtraction in it. You 

De'Vannon: gotta tell me. Smoking like a true shaman. But, but no, because it had so many problems.

How do you fix the broken pumpkin? Broken pumpkin? I'm not sure. I have jack o lanterns growing in my backyard. Yeah, 

Jahan: what, you carve it from the inside out? You empty it out? 

De'Vannon: Spoken like a true shaman, but actually it's you, you, you fix it with a pumpkin patch. Oh, funny. 

Jahan: Ha, ha, ha. Ha, ha, ha. Give 

De'Vannon: it to me one more time.

This is me and my affiliates, y'all. This is, this is, this is silly shit like this. It beats so much life. [01:00:00] So, why are fish so smart? 

Jahan: Oh, cause they're always in schools. Right. Oh, fuck yes. Right on, dude. 

De'Vannon: Oh. Absolutely. So congratulations on your on getting one. And so, I know, right? The, the, the, the, the Jamaica, the Jamaica retreats, is there a website for that?

If people want information on that? 

Jahan: Yeah, it's actually I think it's opmanretreats. com. So A T M A N. We've been doing it for five years. This is the second retreat set in Jamaica. It's been amazing. We have like a 9 out of 10 rating. And it was yesterday that the founder actually just wrote me a letter saying I'm looking to sell the project It's been amazing.

I've gone there a lot. We've done it amazing like well, but he's tired of going there all the time You know because you have to go there to do retreats every two or three like every [01:01:00] two or three months And i've done it a lot too And you know, we are out there for eight or nine days straight. We do the the stuff on the beach, you know It's a food's taking care of it's really amazing But it can be taxing on somebody's lifestyle.

So we wanted to sell it off to somebody that's won. It's very profitable. So the websites up I just went there six, seven weeks ago to do a retreat. But we're putting it on hold until we get a seller and I'm sure we're going to get one because it's, there's not too many things that 

De'Vannon: exist like it.

All right. Well, I wish you good luck with that. And I will be happy to join you on one of those retreats very soon. Oh, that'd be really amazing. So, oh, and today's dad jokes were courtesy of a website called the pioneer woman. com the pioneer woman. com. So this has been Dr. Jahan, everyone. Thank you so much for coming on the show, baby.

Thanks y'all. 

Jahan: Thanks for listening.

De'Vannon: Thank you all [01:02:00] so much for taking time to listen to the sex, drugs, and Jesus podcast. It really means everything to me. Look, if you love the show, you can find more information and resources at sex, drugs, and Jesus. com, or wherever you listen to your podcast. Feel free to reach out to me directly at Devannon at sexdrugsandjesus.

com and on Twitter and Facebook as well. My name is Devannon and it's been wonderful being your host today. And just remember that everything is going to be all right.