Episode #179: Embracing Self-Love Through BDSM, Torture & Spiritual Healing, with Elizabeth Hendrick

INTRODUCTION:

In this gripping episode of the Sex, Drugs, and Jesus Podcast, host De'Vannon Seráphino welcomes the talented Elizabeth Hendrick, author of 'Exodai,' a brutally honest memoir exploring love, obsession, and torture. Elizabeth shares her journey of self-discovery through her sadomasochist relationship with a Japanese dominatrix, touching on themes of BDSM, spiritual lessons, and personal growth. With candid discussions on infatuation, self-love, past life regression, and the healing power of therapy and psychedelics, this episode offers a unique blend of spiritual and sexual insight. Don't miss this enlightening conversation that bridges the gap between deep emotional healing and the world of kink.

Playlists: https://music.apple.com/profile/DeVannonSeraphino

Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.com

INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to):

·      A Super Vulnerable Memoir.

·      Tokyo’s BDSM Underground Scene.

·      Love vs. Infatuation. 

·      The Effect of Guilt/Shame on Self-Love.

·      Trauma Responses.

·      At What Age Do Kink Tendencies Begin?

·      How Does Ego Plays Into All This?

·      How Does God Plays Into All This?

CONNECT WITH ELIZABETH HENDRICK:

Website: https://exodai.co.uk

Memoir: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CJDKPZMT

IG: https://www.instagram.com/exodainarrated/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@exodaimemoir

X: https://x.com/exodaimemoir

CONNECT WITH DE’VANNON SERÁPHINO:

TikTok: https://shorturl.at/nqyJ4

YouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCM

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannon

Email: SDJPodcastNewYork@Gmail.com

Thanks for listening!!! Please follow us on YouTube + TikTok @SexDrugsAndJesusPodcast

Transcript

Episode #179: EXODAI, A Shockingly Honest Memoir of Love, Obsession and Torture, with Elizabeth Hendrick

De'Vannon Seráphino: [00:00:00] Hello. Hello. Hello. All my wonderful and delicious children and souls out there. Welcome back to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast. My name is De'Vannon Seráphino. I'm here with the great and wonderfully talented Elizabeth. Hendrick, who is the author of a book called Exodai, which is a shockingly honest memoir of love, obsession, and torture.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Elizabeth, how the fuck are you doing today? 

Elizabeth Hendrick: Oh, I'm doing absolutely fine. Thank you so much, De'Vannon, and thanks for having me on your show. This is very exciting. I'm really thrilled to be here and tell you a bit about my book and myself and spiritual things. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Right, so this book y'all is an interesting mixture.

De'Vannon Seráphino: It reminds me a lot of myself. It has a lot of kink, BDSM, and sexual situations in it, but Elizabeth does a phenomenal job of tying in spiritual lessons and transmuting and alchemizing the sexual things that happen or the BDSM things that happen into practical, quantifiable, real life experiences.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Healing changes and growth, [00:01:00] which sounds like something that I preached to you all the damn time. So it'll be great to hear this from somebody else's angle. So we're going to be talking a lot about sexuality and BDSM and kink and torture and things of that nature, but also God. So this is so perfect for the Sex, Drugs, and Jesus podcast.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Thank you for sending me your book. I'm going to read a little bit from Amazon about this. So it says, the name of this book is Exodai. It says, Exodai is the first memoir Elizabeth has published. She was compelled to write about her struggles. With her, bring it closer to the, bring it closer to the lens so they can see the cover.

De'Vannon Seráphino: There you go. Yeah, that's better. And that, that, that book cover is actually going to be the the clip art for the episode too. 

Elizabeth Hendrick: It's blurred, isn't it? I should have, let me, if I hold it here. Yeah. It's coming out because I put the blurred background. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: I've got it here as well. There we 

Elizabeth Hendrick: go. Oh, 

De'Vannon Seráphino: no problem. She was compelled to write about her [00:02:00] struggles with her sexuality and narrate the story of how she eventually learned to love herself, placing particular emphasis on her S& M sadomasochist relationship with a Japanese dominatrix.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Elizabeth believes her story will be of value, not just to the LGBTQ but BDS and BDSM communities, but to all individuals who have been ostracized during their adolescence, and whose lack of self love is sabotaging their adult lives. It's also an intriguing peek behind the curtain of Tokyo's exotic and sometimes shocking BDSM underworld.

De'Vannon Seráphino: This book is the winner of the National Indie Excellence Awards for Sexuality category, a finalist in the National Indie Excellence Awards for LGBTQIA Nonfiction, a finalist from the International Book Awards for LGBTQ Nonfiction, and a finalist in the Next Generation Indie Book Awards for Best [00:03:00] Book Cover Design for Nonfiction.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Congratulations. I 

Elizabeth Hendrick: just, I just, thank you very much. I actually literally just this week I picked up another award. It's another silver medal for LGBTQ+ and that was from the reader's favorite, another indie book institution, quite a high esteemed indie book institute, institution. So I was really pleased with that.

Elizabeth Hendrick: So very much. Three, three silver medals now for LGBTQ+ nonfiction, and the gold medal, as you said, is for, sexuality. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Sexuality, hell yes. So that medal around your neck, is that for any of these awards? Tell us about it. So 

Elizabeth Hendrick: yeah, so the, the, actually the book cover is from the Next Generation Indie Book Awards, and that's, that's the top institution for book awards.

Elizabeth Hendrick: So although it was for the cover, they it's still a real great nomination and a great [00:04:00] accolade. And they have their awards ceremony Every year in a different city in America, and they invited me to the award ceremony in June. to pick up this medal. This is so this is the silver medal for the book cover.

Elizabeth Hendrick: The others, the other institutions, I'm still waiting for my medal to be sent. All these, all of these awards came out in June, July and August. And as I said, I've just had a new one now. So I went to, I went to San Diego, I picked this up in the grant US Grant Hotel in San Diego. And I also went. To the American Library Association book convention that happened to be that weekend.

Elizabeth Hendrick: So they always coincide their awards with the American Library Association. And I think last year it was in Chicago, next year it's going to be in Philly. So Philadelphia. So, yeah, that's that's this, this is one of my medals. There you go. And I'm wearing it proudly. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Well, congratulations, Elizabeth.

De'Vannon Seráphino: You fucking earned it. So her website. Oh, absolutely. Her [00:05:00] website is www.Exodai.co.uk. I'm going to add that the Amazon link along with her Instagram X and TikTok to the show note. So you all can keep up with Elizabeth as you please. So tell us what exactly does Exodai mean? And it's spelled E X O D A I.

De'Vannon Seráphino: What does it mean? 

Elizabeth Hendrick: Correct. Well, the, the, what it, so what it means, okay, so it came to me in a dream and this story is actually revealed in the book. And it's basically a made up word that came to me in a dream and I tell the story of that dream in the book. But basically it's the word, the Greek word.

Elizabeth Hendrick: Exodus, which means the going out, and Ai, A I, which is in Japanese, that means love. So it's truncated to Exodai, which means the going out of love, and it's that energy that you resonate when somebody you love walks in the room. That's your Exodai.[00:06:00]

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah, I, I, I get that. Do you care to explain? Because this is basically like a blood splattered rose on the front cover. I know somebody got hit with this rose and it's their blood on the ground or the wall. So can you give us some insight into this book cover, which won this award? 

Elizabeth Hendrick: So I, I actually had to design by a professional designer and he came up with a few mockups and together we worked on it.

Elizabeth Hendrick: But the, the idea is, is that the red rose, the English red rose. I'm a British woman, the English red rose, and it's a beautiful, fragile thing. And if you look at the stalks, there's a couple of thorns on there. So every thorn has its rose. And then it's splattered with blood because what I went through was so utterly brutal.

Elizabeth Hendrick: So it's like this rose has been kind of crucified. And it's standing up there on the front of the book. And it's just to depict the beauty of the [00:07:00] love. and the pain that I endured because of my intrinsic fusion between love and pain in my psyche. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: How very well thought out. I love that. I really love that.

De'Vannon Seráphino: So then we move on in this book and you have this quote from the Hebrew Bible from Corinthians chapter 13 and 7 and it reads, Love beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Why did you put this quote from Corinthians at the start of the book? 

Elizabeth Hendrick: Well, so in my experience of love what, what happened?

Elizabeth Hendrick: A lot of my experiences of love were just an infatuation. But when I was in this relationship with this Japanese dominatrix, who's called Tomo in the book, it's a pseudonym, but that's the name in the book. When it got really to the crux and the depth of the relationship, when she had complete, cause I was her slave for two years.

Elizabeth Hendrick: [00:08:00] And when she had completely dominated me to the point of absolute submission. Every involvement with her was a massive challenge and I was going through so much pain and misery. But I had developed this notion in my head that I was going to save her from her inner demons. Now it was a delusional notion because we can only really save ourselves from our own demons.

Elizabeth Hendrick: We can help people along the way, but I had deluded myself to think that I was the one to save her. That was a delusional mission, if you will, but in order to pursue that delusional mission, I dug very, very deep for love. And I tried to be as unconditional in my love as possible, and just kept loving her for every situation.

Elizabeth Hendrick: So every time she hurt me, every time she [00:09:00] crucified me, every time she degraded me, I had to dig very, very deep to bear, bear it all to, accept it all. And so the, the and there's this sonnet by Shakespeare comes later in the book, love beareth all, even to the edge of doom. So this reading in Corinthian, Corinthians, it says, loves bear it all.

Elizabeth Hendrick: Beareth all things, receiveth all things, doeth all things. So the point is, is it's very appropriate for the kind of love that I was applying to the situation in this relationship, in this torturous and abusive relationship with this dominatrix. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: It's very interesting to me how we have a false perception of what love is, usually stemming from our childhood, until we go through all this pain and chaos and abuse in order to figure it out.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Like what you said we can't save anybody. I tried to do that in previous relationships, and now what I've learned to do, It'd be they lovers, [00:10:00] friends, family, chosen family or whatever. I give people options. I'm like, I see this is going on. And if they ask if the conversation goes to it, I recommend this, which you like to explore it.

De'Vannon Seráphino: If not, people need to have agency and feel like that they're really leading the ship and they really have to lead their own ship. There's times we may need to step in a little bit deeper, but if you go and force, Rescue somebody and they haven't really done the work. or don't want to do the work to change.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Then they're just going to be right back out there anyway, but we can't save any damn body, but we can offer options and see how they want us to help them. 

Elizabeth Hendrick: Exactly, exactly. In the end, I think in this dynamic, on a very deep, deep spiritual level the dominatrix helped me very, very much. She helped me much more than I helped her.

Elizabeth Hendrick: I mean, she put up a, almost like a, a white board. And I projected whatever story I [00:11:00] wanted to onto that whiteboard, and she didn't really have to do very much to make it happen, because it was all going on in my head. The machinations of the mind, I mean, it was an incredible experience. But ultimately I came out loving myself, after going through all this, rinsing through all this incredible pain and wretchedness, and misery and degradation and submission.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah, I'm going to read a little bit about that towards the end of the interview about like your thought, like I wrote in the book about how her, what all she did to you actually helped you. And I thought that was quite a quite fascinating snippet of transmutation and I study sexual alchemy and things like that, though I've never really quite seen it done like this before.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah, how you had mentioned like you thought you were in love, but really was infatuation. I've been in recent episodes that I've been recording I've been really warning people about that from the angle of like polyamory Because sometimes, and in your book, it's not really about [00:12:00] polyamory, but since it's coming up, I feel like I just want to talk about it for a second.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Because sometimes people get into, be it monogamous or polyamorous they think it's love, but it's infatuation. And until we really fall in love with ourselves, when we're by ourselves and we're the most comfortable in our own energy, then we're really not capable of showing true, pure love.

De'Vannon Seráphino: True, pure love is when you would just stare at a motherfucking person because you're just that satisfied with them. You don't, their presence is your present. You don't have to have an experience with them. You don't have to do anything with them you don't have to have sex with them. You can literally just.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Stare at them and just be in their energy. The end that is true motherfucking love. But what I have seen is that people get like hurt in monogamous situations. Then they go run to poly situations and then they have like an anger against the concept of monogamy. And we must not do this. Now, if monogamy just [00:13:00] ain't your thing, it this ain't your thing, then a polyamory just ain't your thing.

De'Vannon Seráphino: It ain't your thing. We shouldn't hate either one of them because they're both valid before God. There's plenty of examples in the Hebrew Bible about both, but it's the motives like we can't do anything from a pain response or a trauma response and people be in these polycules with all these people are sleeping with and there are people they're sleeping with the sleep with other people.

De'Vannon Seráphino: And it's, and it's, and it's, it's like they're hiding pain, they're using it to self medicate, and they're not really facing their issues, and they think, they call themselves showing love, because they're laying in bed with these people and having these adventures and experiences, but really they're running from themselves in so many damn people that they don't really face themselves. What do you think?

De'Vannon Seráphino: Oh, 

Elizabeth Hendrick: I think that's absolutely, absolutely spot on. We, a lot of the time, we, when we don't love ourselves deep down within we start, there's a disconnect internally. And what happens is we [00:14:00] start to attract people who will plug into that disconnect. And so, I mean, for me, in my case, I, I mean, I didn't love myself because I was a lesbian woman.

Elizabeth Hendrick: I was essentially ostracized at school in my adolescence. And I buried a lot of guilt and lack of self love. And as an adult, the way that manifested is that every time I got into a relationship there would be all these triggers that was causing us to argue or to have fractions or just things, situations to blow up and become toxic.

Elizabeth Hendrick: And that was coming from something within my psyche that was not comfortable, didn't love itself, was full of shame and guilt. And similarly, the person I was with. Had similar issues might have been that they didn't love themselves because of the way they were brought up by their family, or maybe they had an issue with their sexuality too, and we'd plug into each other that disconnect.

Elizabeth Hendrick: So what I, what I always find is if you have a lack of self love, and it, [00:15:00] it may be, it may be in different areas of your life. It could be to do with your family, it could be to do with your work situation. You could be getting bullied at work. But most often, if during. In your childhood and adolescence, you've had a hard time accepting your sexuality.

Elizabeth Hendrick: That's going to set you up with some hardwired guilt deep in your subconscious that will constantly manifest in your adult life and will show form during emotional relationships. And we have to learn to love that we have to learn to self heal, but very often people don't realize there's a problem. And I was in denial.

Elizabeth Hendrick: That there was an issue. I was completely in my twenties, I was having really, really a harm as a lesbian woman and I was going and getting drunk and stuff and just so fed up with my sexuality and going out and getting drunk and pouring my heart out to people and blaming the external. All the time I was blaming the external and I remember many of my friends, said, why [00:16:00] don't you go and see a therapist or a counselor?

Elizabeth Hendrick: And I would say, Oh, there's no problem with me. I'm fine. It's not me. I'm just unlucky. And it wasn't until I had been on this reality TV show aged about 35. And I did, it was a UK reality TV show a bit. So the. It was a bit like what happens after Shark Tank. So after you've got the investment, let's watch the entrepreneurs building their business.

Elizabeth Hendrick: And it was a UK version. And it didn't do very well in the UK, so they only did one season. But I did very, very badly. And one of the things that the leader of the show, the media mogul said, was, Elizabeth, I've got, you're stuck emotionally and it's why you're so unsuccessful in business. And I hated the comment at the time, but oh my God, it was the truth.

Elizabeth Hendrick: And after getting kicked off the reality TV show, I took a long, [00:17:00] hard look at myself in the mirror and realized that at a subconscious level, I hadn't accepted myself as a lesbian woman. This is in the book. I go into this, this is sort of in the end of the first half of the book, I realized I haven't accepted myself as a lesbian woman.

Elizabeth Hendrick: And I was, Half of the solution is acknowledging that there's a problem, and then I went on to this, having acknowledged that there's a problem, I then went on to this seven year period of healing, where I was seeing counselors and working on myself, and there were lots of ups and downs during that time.

Elizabeth Hendrick: I mean, I even tried to take my life during that time, when I was living in Dubai. But that's, that's, what you said is absolutely spot on. We. Until we learn to love ourselves internally we're going to manifest that harbored guilt or that harbored pain and shame. We're going to manifest that in our life experience.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I concur. And remember, y'all, this is [00:18:00] something that running is running, like Elizabeth said, deep in your subconscious. It's a learned and narrow pathway. And that's why you keep repeating the same problems and relationships as you keep dating people and it doesn't work out. It shouldn't bother you if you keep getting in relationships and breaking up.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Like, they don't end for no damn reason. Usually you have one or two people who are not doing the work and who are not willing to tell themselves the truth. Relationships challenge us. They reflect who we are. And the beautiful thing is if the Lord sends you somebody or the divine as you choose to look at it, who will actually challenge you and love you.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Don't you run from that person? Because, because that is the Lord giving you an opportunity to grow. And face yourself, you must evaluate your relationships around you. I don't care if they're a lover, friend, family, child, cat, dog, lizard, Iguana, whatever, and be able to render quantifiable benefits that this person helps you and show, okay, I've grown this way and this way.

De'Vannon Seráphino: And this way, since this person came into my life, I [00:19:00] am better. How, because of this, not just having experiences and having sex with them and doing. Sensual things like practically quantifiably. How is this person of deep value to you and you got to be able to write it out or that person's got to go or to y'all got to change the dynamics or something, but you can't keep it.

De'Vannon Seráphino: And then you have to reevaluate this console. When it comes up throughout your life. I do that about once a year with every relationship in my life. I, I, we come up for review. And I, and I, and I also, and I also review myself. I asked them, how have I added to you? How are you better within this last year?

De'Vannon Seráphino: Because I've been around, I don't want to just be in a situation where I'm just having fun with people. And then that's the extent of it because dark energy will get in there and keep you like anchored down. If you have superficial relationships, it's all about frilly things like that. And like how you said you healed for seven years, y'all, you got to take time in isolation.

De'Vannon Seráphino: You cannot always be dating, always be [00:20:00] having sex with people, always be doing the things with people, you need to get by yourself and get with the divine so you can hear yourself, know yourself, know thyself. Otherwise, you're going to keep fucking up or keep getting into the same sorts of situations.

De'Vannon Seráphino: You can't give away what you don't have. And so until you learn to love yourself, ain't no loving relationship you're trying to do gon work. And there's far too many people with low self esteem, insecurities, having all this sex, being in poly situations, and you really fucking cannot be poly unless you know who the fuck you are.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Because you're mixing with all those different energies and all those different vibes. And You will get lost in a big ass ocean if you go into poly situations where you call yourself being the type who's gonna have more than one sexual partner or lover and you ain't solid in your shit. And it's a slow sort of destruction that comes with this.

De'Vannon Seráphino: You gonna have What you perceive to be fun and have all this [00:21:00] sex for a while or a few years, it is going to degrade you slowly on the inside. That's how it works. And then you look around and you sitting in front of a therapist. If you have enough sense to go with all these fucking problems and you don't know where they came from, some of them actually leached into you from the sex you had with other people because of the spiritual and energetic transfer.

De'Vannon Seráphino: When you have sex with other people, some of those problems weren't originally your own, but now they've attached themselves to you. And so, so we really have to be careful with how we go about. I was curious, your book doesn't have any chapter titles or a table of content. Was that intentional? 

Elizabeth Hendrick: Well, I've read a lot of books where there's chapter headings, and I've read a lot of books where there's, it's just the number of the chapter and.

Elizabeth Hendrick: I kind of, I, I like the minimalism of having non titled chapters, and, [00:22:00] I, I often find chapter titles are a little bit trite. Sometimes they're very, Good. And you sort of think, okay, we know what we're getting into here, but I liked it. I like the mystery and the minimalism, really. So that was a deliberate decision.

Elizabeth Hendrick: And I thought, let's just read through the story. And I mean, it's it's not a long memoir and it's not You know, it reads very much like a novel, so it's not your traditional memoir, which is lots of deep reflections and looking back on past moments and talking about key key individuals in your life experience.

Elizabeth Hendrick: This was very much a focus on my Why I didn't love myself as a lesbian woman, where it came from, when I realized there's a problem, and the healing process. And with main focus, the whole second half of the book, is this relationship with this dominatrix. And it's a ride, it's the whole story, from start to finish, when I come out the other side.

Elizabeth Hendrick: learning to love myself and the reflections on what was actually happening [00:23:00] at the end of the book. And it's, it's, it's, a lot of people do read it literally in one sitting. Slower readers probably take a week, but it, it's, you it's like, It's like watching a YouTube video. Sometimes they do chapter breaks on the video.

Elizabeth Hendrick: Sometimes they start off the video telling you what's going to be in it. And other times you just stood there and you're on the video and you watch it to the end and you think, Oh, the video just finished. And yeah, I see. I see. We went, we went on a journey and it's done. It's, it's kind of like that.

Elizabeth Hendrick: So surprise people. That's that's I guess how it works. It's a ride. Join the ride. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: I love a non traditional approach. I'm here for it. And it does, it's a, it's a fast read and like, even though it's, I mean, it's over like 322 pages. So, but But it's it's about the pace of it. It's intense. You don't really hold back at all [00:24:00] and you you you, really go there and you take it, you take us on a good sexually spiritually educational journey.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Now that that glossary you have in the back of the book gave me life. Now that was also another nontraditional thing that I really appreciated. And I'm going to read. Three words from her kinky glossary in the back of the book to help you understand some of the Japanese that is, that is littered throughout this, it is based in Japan and y'all know I love me some Tokyo, but I, so I chose the word hentai, which, according to the glossary of Elizabeth says kinky or sexually perverted.

De'Vannon Seráphino: We associate hentai a lot with gay Japanese anime porn with like the audaciously monstrous Godzilla sized dicks with like an ocean of cum coming out of it and drowning, like, like, like the poor bottom in it, but I guess he's loving to die that way, or whatever the case might be. The second word is shibari.

De'Vannon Seráphino: which is a Japanese rope bondage. We have shibari [00:25:00] lube, and there's a lot of rope bondage taught here in the United States. And the last one that stood out to me was, sutekinai opai, which is great boobs. And so it got boobular, totally boobtastic. So I really love the glossary. 

Elizabeth Hendrick: The pronunciation there is sticky na oppai, sticky na oppai.

Elizabeth Hendrick: A little Japanese accent. Yeah, so, so hentai would cover the huge penis ejaculating an ocean of sperm. I mean, that is a bit hentai. Hentai is anything that's just a little bit alternative and full on and extreme. So it's, it's not, so kinky, it's kinky is probably the best translation. Kinky and perverted, perverted, sexually perverted, is a kind of.

Elizabeth Hendrick: A negative description. Hentai is, is much less derogatory. It's, it's kind of, it's quite fun, or he's really hentai, [00:26:00] I mean, and it covers a lot of, covers a lot of things. It doesn't have to just be sexual. But anyway, yeah. So certainly manga, big penises, ejaculating oceans of sperm would be hentai.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Well, 17 inches is the biggest I ever had to play around with, and that seems to shock a lot of people, but they exist. Wow. 

Elizabeth Hendrick: Wow. Wow. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: So, right? What are you going to do with that? So, I'm going to read 

Elizabeth Hendrick: Sorry, I, yeah, just wow. I'm drowning in a, in a sea of sperm. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yo, Tokyo is a highly sexually charged city. It doesn't look that way on television, but when you're there The people of Japan are conservative and they are taught to be that way from youth, not to argue, not to really render their opinions, but to be very private.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Everyone walks very faithfully on the right side of the street, up and down escalators and stairs. It is very structured and peacefully. So streets are clean, [00:27:00] very little violence, if any, very little homelessness is any, if any, to speak of relative to other places, but people are very much themselves behind closed doors.

De'Vannon Seráphino: There's entire districts of Tokyo. That have like sexual places where you can go and do sexual things. You can go and get the drugs. You can go and have the experiences. You can go and get the, the, the adult books and manga and things like that. It is not shunned that you just have to do it. And this is not some small part of Tokyo.

De'Vannon Seráphino: There's really nothing much small about Tokyo. You have a lot of large places dedicated to it, the exploration of sexuality in Tokyo. 

Elizabeth Hendrick: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you can, and they, and they, I mean, there are certain areas, like you mentioned, where there's just nothing but sexual shops, but yeah, you can, you can just go down a lovely little residential area.

Elizabeth Hendrick: and discover that there's an S& M love hotel. So for example, Alpha Inn, Alpha Inn, which was the love hotel I used to go to, to play with, do torture sessions with. Tomo. [00:28:00] It's decked out. Out. for BDSM and so a lot of the rooms are decorated like dungeons and you have chains hanging from the walls and everything and crucifixes.

Elizabeth Hendrick: And the entrance to this hotel is just in this little back street and across the road there's a nice little Indian restaurant, there's an Italian restaurant and a few doors down there's a lovely little English bakery called Mornington Crescent. And you would have no idea that just across the street in this odd looking building, it looks like a prison, because they've got bars.

Elizabeth Hendrick: bars on the windows, all the windows are blacked out you wouldn't imagine in the middle of this delightful residential area, there's this huge institution where there's lots of people doing some serious stuff behind closed doors in these different hotel rooms, it's amazing. So you have real contrast in Japan from just 10 meters away you wouldn't know.

Elizabeth Hendrick: The people who know, who need to know, know, but most of the people who go to that English bakery would have no [00:29:00] idea what's opposite. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: That's what I call hidden in plain sight. And I love the texture there. So I'm, I'm going to read the prologue because it's only like a page, but it really gives like a flavor for the tone of everything.

De'Vannon Seráphino: So, and this, and this is, this is like the first time that Elizabeth is meeting with Tomo. This is, I mean, they had never met before. This is like, that really like, like my wow. moment. I'm like, y'all started off fucking hard as going as hard as a motherfucker from the beginning, which makes sense for like deep trauma responses.

De'Vannon Seráphino: That makes sense. So, so tonight I am going to be tortured 

Elizabeth Hendrick: for 

De'Vannon Seráphino: a woman I love. The woman is not in danger. She doesn't need saving like a damsel in distress, nor am I obliged to go through with this. I chose, I choose to suffer. I will meet my torturer at 10 o'clock in a love hotel in the heart of Tokyo.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I will be stripped naked, abused, and punished. [00:30:00] You know what I've never done before is it's gotten the person who actually wrote the book to read. Did you care to read the rest of your prologue for the peoples? 

Elizabeth Hendrick: Yeah, let me let me read it. Let me read it from the top. Here we go. I'll maybe read a couple of paragraphs.

Elizabeth Hendrick: And then if you want me to go on, you can get me to go on. So here we go. Tonight, I'm going to be tortured for the woman I love. The woman is not in danger. She doesn't need saving like a damsel in distress, nor am I obliged to go through with this. I choose to suffer. I will meet my torturer at 10 o'clock in a love hotel in the heart of Tokyo.

Elizabeth Hendrick: I will be strickered, abused, punished. My assailant is in fact the very woman I love, and I will gladly permit her to torture me to her heart's content. She wants to see me suffer. She is my mistress. This is not patacake whips, soft spanking, or feather duster tickling. She will ruthlessly run me to the [00:31:00] ground.

Elizabeth Hendrick: When it is over, I shall probably be a few bruises shy of a hospital, and the clothes I wear after the session are likely to become stained with my blood. We don't use safe words. My mistress believes that true suffering cannot be experienced if you have the opportunity to abort. Her euphoria erupts only when her subject caves in under torture.

Elizabeth Hendrick: She will read my face and know when my limit is reached. She will observe my suffering beyond that point. When through my eyes, she can look into my soul and find true love. She will savour my affliction and bathe in the adoration bursting forth from my heart. Only my love will carry me through the endeavour.

Elizabeth Hendrick: I will become euphoric. It will not be a sexual encounter, just one of extreme agony and ecstasy, a mutual expression of love. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Thank you so very much. For that[00:32:00]

De'Vannon Seráphino: you've already kind of told us about Tomo and everything like that in your first time meeting in in the beginning of the book you talk about your time at the private school and I want to tie this together with how you first even got the inclination that you had an addiction to torture. It was like a book like a teacher gave you.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Can you tell us about that? 

Elizabeth Hendrick: Yeah, so I was, I guess I was seven when I started, elementary school? No yeah, I was about seven.

Elizabeth Hendrick: I just remember, I had this really nice teacher, she's called Mrs Beckwith, and we were sitting down to a history lesson one day, and we opened up a new history book, and we started at chapter one, which was the Middle Ages. And, books were kind of [00:33:00] old and everything, so people had written graffiti in the margins, and there was always a common thing like, do you like graffiti?

Elizabeth Hendrick: I don't know, do you like XYZ? And the answer, yes, turn to page 65. Answer, no, turn to page 171. And in this occasion, the question was, are you stupid? Yes, turn to page 65. No, turn to page 170. Anyway, so I was just idly looking through these little bits of graffiti. And I stumbled across, because I turned to page 172 or whatever, I stumbled across the section on crime and Punishment and medieval crime and punishment and this history book we were seven year olds.

Elizabeth Hendrick: So there were eight year olds, seven or eight year olds, there were pictures of in the book, and there were pictures of men in the pillory. baker, all strapped sled with his bad bread around his neck being paraded around town and people throwing tomatoes at him and [00:34:00] just these pictures of people in torture.

Elizabeth Hendrick: This is a, I mean, they're very, very kind of cartoony. So this is children's reading book history pictures. And I was just absolutely gripped. I thought, wow. Gosh, I'd love to be tied up like that on a sled. And it started, I started to have these fantasies that I would develop, even when I was seven, eight years old, seven, eight, nine years old.

Elizabeth Hendrick: And as I got a little bit older towards the age of nine or 10, I, so I would go to bed, mom turns the lights out and. I would lie in bed for a bit, imagining these different scenarios of me in a pillory, or I'd invent my own contraptions where I'm being restricted and tied down, and I started to need to go to the toilet.

Elizabeth Hendrick: And typically, when we went to bed, the last thing we would do is go to the toilet, get into bed, so we're empty, so to speak. And I would be lying there having these fantasies, and I'd need [00:35:00] to go to the toilet, so I'd think, ah, bother, get up, go to the bathroom, there's nothing to urinate. Why? Because I've been getting turned on and I had no concept that these thoughts, I had no concept of the orgasm or sex or anything as a nine year old as a ten year old, but what was actually happening is I was getting turned on, having these fantasies, these fantasies about bondage and punishment and humiliation and so So it was, it was in my DNA.

Elizabeth Hendrick: I mean, I was even at the same, I had two parallel things going on. One was that I, I was starting to be attracted to women. And I, I knew from the age of six or seven that I liked women. Age 10, I told a girl in my class, I loved her. And age 13, I learned that this meant I was a lesbian. And I was very sorry about that at the time, but initially it was quite exciting.

Elizabeth Hendrick: Meanwhile, in parallel, I had these very strange fantasies about rope and [00:36:00] bondage and humiliation and, and apparatuses , of torture. And so it all started from a very young age. And the first chapter in my book is pretty much that history lesson. And reading the book and running into the library in the lunch hour to sift through all the history books and try and find more pictures of torture.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Oh, we all got to start somewhere. Do you feel, do you feel like it was because of any sort of like, Abuse or trauma from your childhood, or did you just think that this was like the natural flow for you, from you?

Elizabeth Hendrick: So, I have, I've never explored, but I've never seen need to explore. I'm pretty confident that between the ages of zero and five, I didn't get exposed to any kind of abuse. I'm, I can say that very confidently, because I, I just [00:37:00] feel better. at home in myself now and the only to unravel was this lack of self love as a result of being ostracized at school for being a lesbian.

Elizabeth Hendrick: And I've unwrapped that all now and I wholly embrace my sexuality. And I was very lucky because that, that, that pain and hurt was hardwired into my subconscious from a, from a relatively mature age. So I was, 13 years old when that hard wiring started. So, I think if you're trying to unwind something from the age of 4 or 3, where you've been abused as a, as a very young child, much more difficult to unravel.

Elizabeth Hendrick: But I don't, I don't feel that there's anything there. But this, this strange kinky interest, So I've got a couple of schools of thought as to where that originates from. Because the other thing I would say about BDSM is that I've, all the people I've met, they kind of knew it intuitively. It was innate.

Elizabeth Hendrick: It was a natural thing for them that they may have only discovered as an adult,[00:38:00] but as soon as they discovered it, it's like the glove fits. This is what I was always looking for. I mean, in my case, I already started fantasies from age six, but my, I, one school of thought is that it can be a hereditary ancestral hangover that comes through in our cellular memory, or from a previous life, it comes through in a cellular memory.

Elizabeth Hendrick: We may have been in a torturous situation in a previous life. If, if you believe that the soul comes into this body and leaves and goes to another dimension, and occasionally it pops back up, in another life form. That's, that's for if you believe in past lives and I'm, I'm open to it. I don't, I don't embrace or I don't reject the theory.

Elizabeth Hendrick: There is that one theory that it's come from a previous life. The other theory, which I really like is, that these things take hold of the psyche during birth when you're born into the [00:39:00] world. So for example, it's not peer reviewed, but I've heard cases where they've, where it's remembered. They have a theory that the brain, so being urinated on, the people who get really turned on by that were often urinated on at the point of birth by their mother.

Elizabeth Hendrick: And that fused into their psyche, that experience, and they associated it with euphoria. Because the being born into the world is a euphoric moment, and when you take your first breath. Now in my case, it's I was I was due on, let's call it, X, date X. I was due on a date X. I was still in my mind.

Elizabeth Hendrick: I started to move. She started to have contractions around about the date that I was due to be born. But it was as if I stopped and said, Wait, I think I'll just stay here a bit longer. And ten days later, they had to induce me. Now I speculate that [00:40:00] maybe I started to move into the Exit of the womb and got a bit restricted and so for those 10 days.

Elizabeth Hendrick: I was in this restricted position Having the time of my life, because I'd moved partly out of the womb, and when they induced me, that all became a euphoric moment. And I, my speculation, because I love to be wrapped deeply and tightly in latex and rubber, and really bonded down so I can't move. And I there's a speculative theory that that could be to do with how birth was for me.

Elizabeth Hendrick: And also the humiliation thing, is sometimes, whenever you, if ever you go to a hospital for an operation, or a bit of invasive surgery, Or any doctors doing, I mean, particularly gynecologist , always looking up women's private parts. If, if you just have a bad vibe or bad energy with someone in the room, that experience in the hospital can be quite humiliating.

Elizabeth Hendrick: So [00:41:00] maybe when I was born into the world, there was someone in the room that my mother was uncomfortable with and felt humiliated. And that, again, that psyche downloaded into my psyche, that thought downloaded into my psyche, so I enjoy being Humiliated. And for the pain for masochists who actually get turned on by pain.

Elizabeth Hendrick: They just transfer they download the pain of childbirth into their psyche, which is why their brain has intrinsically fused. pain with euphoria And that's why they become masochists, because the pain gives them so much pleasure. So there's that theory. It's, it's not proven, but it's a, it's a theory that I think sort of makes sense.

Elizabeth Hendrick: For me, there's no doubt that it was natural, it was innate, and I was, about these things in a very, way, there was no trauma, you see. So I, again, I don't think it was any kind of child abuse pre age five because I [00:42:00] thought about these things gladly and excitedly. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Oh, that's why we shouldn't judge anybody.

De'Vannon Seráphino: They say in the kink circles, don't yuck anybody's yum. You never, you never know the who, what, where, when and why. We all have to stand before God for ourselves. And as they say, we don't have a heaven to send you to or a hell to put you in or nothing like that. And so we best focus on ourselves.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Thank you for sharing all of that. Do you think Tomo reflected anybody from your high school, any of your classmates? 

Elizabeth Hendrick: No, I, I don't actually. That's a really interesting question. I, I don't think she reflected anybody from my high school, but there's this, in, in the book, I get so desperate for meaning and guidance as to what I should do, whether I should abort the relationship that I know is destroying me in my [00:43:00] life and my well being.

Elizabeth Hendrick: I did what's called regression therapy. So I went to see a Japanese bilingual therapist that my one of my friends had connected with me with, and we did a, we did a past life regression. And in this past life regression, it turned out that I had been a mentally disabled man in the fifth hundreds and some Eastern European country.

Elizabeth Hendrick: And I had been given the job of burning, setting fire to this, to the. The bonfire under stakes where witches were burnt and I really enjoyed this job and one of these witches was Tomo and it was the soul of Tomo and I had burned her and really enjoyed seeing her go up in flames. Now and it was amazing because doing this therapy, we had this four hour sesh.

Elizabeth Hendrick: And I had all this in my head, and it was kind of [00:44:00] felt like I was imagining it, but all these thoughts were just coming to me. It was, it was quite odd, but what was really, really vivid was the emotional outpouring and going through that therapy, and I offshed so much emotion. That that was really a big step forward in the whole healing process.

Elizabeth Hendrick: Now, whether or not it came from me just collectively memoring something that the human conscious energetically has out there in the world, or whether I actually was in a previous life, it doesn't really matter what happened there, how I got to that. The point was is that I had this massive offloading of emotional trauma.

Elizabeth Hendrick: That helped my healing process. So I think the, the answer to your question, I, I don't, she didn't relate to me as someone from my school childhood, I don't think, but she may have been in a previous life, which I may have been her assailant in a previous life, [00:45:00] according to this Russian therapy. And so I think we've, we had to balance the karma somehow.

Elizabeth Hendrick: And that, that's that's all been done out. So we're all in a happy place. Incidentally. Although it took me two years to get over her and we we sort of didn't see each other for a very long time. We're actually quite good friends now, Tomo and I, I mean I hardly see her. I see her about two or three times a year at s and m parties, but she's always, she's always very happy to see me.

Elizabeth Hendrick: We put all the past behind us and I think we've managed to get back friends again, but that's that's part of the self-loving process. So you don't bear grudges with people you see, and you don't cut people off. So, 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Hmm. Well, long answer. I'm happy, happy Tomo work, work that out. And I thank you for that, for that delicious breakdown of being so transparent in your book and vocally telling us about your [00:46:00] feeling through and your past life aggression.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I wanted to read as promised this portion of 3 22. Then we will get ready to, to close it out. It says this is 

Elizabeth Hendrick: from the epilogue. Isn't it? It's from the ? No, 

De'Vannon Seráphino: it's the page book for the post script. So page 3 22. Yeah, because it says slow. Do you 

Elizabeth Hendrick: want me to read it or? 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Oh, yeah, you can. It was just gonna be from where it says slowly to complete.

Elizabeth Hendrick: Slowly over the years. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah. 

Elizabeth Hendrick: Oh, why don't you read it? 'cause I'm not sure where you are.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Yeah, if you want to, it's it's the very last paragraph on page 3 22. 

Elizabeth Hendrick: 3 22. Okay. So slowly over the years, here we go. Slowly, over the years I had faced my fears and burrowed into myself going deeper and deeper until I discovered my true self. This journey had culminated in a two year bootcamp [00:47:00] episode as Tomo's slave, which had brought about the unpeeling of the hideous ego mast.

Elizabeth Hendrick: I had worn for 30 years. I realized Tomo had met my overtures of love with the exact negative equivalent, she'd sucked me inside out and dragged me across the threshold into insanity. But all along, God had been steadily refining me and stirring me to love myself, making use of the absurd circumstances in which I chose to exist.

Elizabeth Hendrick: My relentless faith and constant application of love to every situation allowed God to work on me and heal me, even though I used that very same faith to endorse my delusional vision. And now God's work was complete. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: So then my final question to you would be what advice do you have to anybody in a similar situation who's caught up in an infatuation situation [00:48:00] that they're getting confused with love and allowing themselves to ultimately be abused? Because in the book you do say that you believe that Thelma was a narcissist.

De'Vannon Seráphino: and which is a very difficult energy to detach from. So what advice would you give to someone in a situation like this? 

Elizabeth Hendrick: Well, I think the, the first thing I always say to people is take a long hard look inside because, if something keeps getting triggered in the relationship or in a series of relationships and it's causing you trauma, then you've got to ask yourself, you've got to face, what is it that's triggering, what, what's happening there, why are you getting triggered, and I think it really, really needs honest, hard exploration, and the reality is, is that there's a trigger that keeps happening, [00:49:00] and, and just toxicity keeps arising in relationships, then there's something inside you that is inviting that.

Elizabeth Hendrick: It's, it's not external. It's internal. And if it wasn't with that person you're having these experiences, it likely would be having the same experiences with another person. So we've got to get away from blaming it on the person. And saying, okay, I've invited that person who has issues. They've got issues, but that's for them to self heal.

Elizabeth Hendrick: But because they've got issues, I've invited them to come in and hug into my issues and trigger me. So, the very first step is acknowledging that there's an issue and that you need to do some self work and self exploration. And then the second step is to Honestly, take time. It's the most important time you'll spend on learning to self [00:50:00] love and heal and I have to say, look, not everybody can fully heal and some of us eventually have to put coping mechanisms in place.

Elizabeth Hendrick: So in my case, I was very lucky because the damage was done during my adolescence and eventually I was able to peel that all off. Now, if you're trying to unwind damage that's happened when you were three years and four years old you've got to go really deep into the onion, into the layers of the onion. And it can be done, but it's going to take some really intense, deep therapy.

Elizabeth Hendrick: I mean, I've just read a memoir by a very interesting girl who was sexually abused when she was four years old and then raped several times during her adolescence. And it's, it's amazing what she went through and what that was attracting. She kept getting she became a meth addict. She kept ending up in jail.

Elizabeth Hendrick: She had children. She kept getting separated from her children and all of this was stemming from this lack of self love at a very deep level. And she unraveled it all, eventually, and [00:51:00] she's written this amazing memoir about how she's got over it all. So it, it is, it is possible, but it, you have to, you have to really It's hard.

Elizabeth Hendrick: You have to work hard on yourself. And it's so because one is so tired. One is so exhausted because of what this lack of self love has delivered to us in our life experience. We become so exhausted. And the last thing we want to do is just do hard work. throughout therapy But that's what you've got to do. And I really strongly advise it to, to, to get, to talk to somebody, to read health, self help books.

Elizabeth Hendrick: Reading is a really great way of healing. Lots of meditation, lots of walks with nature, yoga, all of these things that just cleanse and keep positive energy. But if you've got some stuff that has got to be worked through, I think you usually need a counselor or a therapist to help you work through that.

De'Vannon Seráphino: I concur, and your [00:52:00] advice is very good. What I would also suggest to people is in tandem with the therapies and all of the hypnotherapy, neuro, neuro, but biofeedback, all of that psychedelics if it works for your system, and it doesn't conflict with any psych meds that you're on. I have gotten.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Powerful healing and deliverance through inviting The Spirit into things like LSD trips, psilocybin trips, at the club with shamans in the field in Mexico alternative things like that help too, because psychedelics, the LSD ain't nothing but the Holy Ghost in the bottle as far as I'm concerned.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Because you the things that brings up and then you also have like for me, I have a peaceful way of looking at the most traumatic things when I'm on LSD and it comes up and I'm very level headed and objective, but I feel it and you got to feel it because it went in, but it's got to come out. And LSD for me, there's many plant medicines and many psychedelics out there.

De'Vannon Seráphino: So look into it, pray about it, but consider it and just feel [00:53:00] it. And I have cried several nights in the clubs here in New York, while high on LSD, sunglasses on and dancing and catching a whole ass deliverance on the dance floor. And then I feel so much better. The next day as I move forward, so, 

Elizabeth Hendrick: oh yeah. Dance, dancing is a, actually, I, I totally relate to that.

Elizabeth Hendrick: I sometimes just get ecstatic just from dancing, not on any drugs or anything. I mean, I used to do ecstasy back in the day, but dancing is a, is a great movement for the body. Just everything that's going on when you're dancing and. Be all of that. I love that. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Right. There's a lot of that gets us back to like our primal nature.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Like, oh, there's a lot of I'm a certified fitness instructor. And so primal movements are things that we, like, say, cavemen would have done and things like that. But it connects us to, like, the earth and to the mainly to the earth in, like, a primally our primal form is before we were, Abuse before we were [00:54:00] traumatized.

De'Vannon Seráphino: A primal energy is like a reset. So every time you touch a tree, a leaf or the dirt is taking you back to the beginning of all things. And it's a way that you can transmute that energy to, to, to heal and take them to kind of like reverse time in a way. And dancing is very. And we Can be very primal. It can be very sexual.

De'Vannon Seráphino: The hip is how we can open our sacral chakra and different things like that. So let's dance our way to freedom people. Yes. Wow. 

Elizabeth Hendrick: Yeah. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Are we going to do our dad jokes now? We're going to ask the lovely Elizabeth three jokes and see See how she does and then we'll close out the show with that. Thank you for going over time a little bit.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Can I 

Elizabeth Hendrick: just can I just say one thing about the book? This won't take long. I just because we didn't talk much about the torture scenes. It's a very very raw and graphic book and I am obliged to tell you all that there are trigger warnings. So it's a it's a really gripping read, and as we said, you can read it in one sitting, but there are some [00:55:00] very discri graphically descriptive torture scenes of what I went through under Tomo, and it, it's, it, it is, there are some triggers, so just, you have been warned, there are, there are triggers, and some people have likened me to Stephen King.

Elizabeth Hendrick: Who's a very deeply descriptive horror writer. Well, he doesn't just write horror, but you know so anyway, there we go, that's the public health warning done. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Oh No problem at all. Was there a particular torture scene you wanted to read or did you just want to wait? 

Elizabeth Hendrick: It would take too long. No, that's okay. We will leave that for the readers to enjoy Joy but suffice it to say that there's electrocution of my nipples.

Elizabeth Hendrick: There's Flagellation, there's, oh, there's all sorts of stuff. There's even, there's even, mummification and masks. Oh, yeah. Go and take a look at the book. It's, it's all in there. It's pretty intense and [00:56:00] raw. Oh, 

De'Vannon Seráphino: oh. From that, 

Elizabeth Hendrick: we'll go into dad jokes. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: Right, we'll go into dad jokes. So dad joke number one is, What's blue and not very heavy?

Elizabeth Hendrick: The sky.

De'Vannon Seráphino: True I'll accept that. I'll give you credit for that. The answer is technically light blue, but the sky is light blue. Strictly speaking, you can never My 

Elizabeth Hendrick: favorite color. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: There you go, synchronicity. And strictly speaking, you can't really touch the sky because it doesn't exist, quote unquote, because it's a reflection.

De'Vannon Seráphino: So, yeah, so congratulations on getting the first one. Okay, dad joke number two. What's an astronaut's favorite part on the computer keyboard? 

Elizabeth Hendrick: Escape.[00:57:00]

De'Vannon Seráphino: You know what? I'll give you that one too, because that could work. The, the answer that I got from the internet was the space bar, but we can do the space bar, we could do escape because they're technically always escaping the atmosphere. That works too. I'm flexible. Okay, the last one is how do you very good very few people get two out of three.

De'Vannon Seráphino: You're smarter than the average bear. So let me see how do and that's an that's an 80s reference to the Yogi Bear cartoons that we'll go around. So, how do you make a waterbed bouncier?

Elizabeth Hendrick: Okay, let's have a think. How do you make a waterbed bouncier?

Elizabeth Hendrick: I, pass. [00:58:00] I don't know, you jump, you throw it out the window? I don't know. 

De'Vannon Seráphino: You know what? I would accept. It'll bounce higher, right? It'll bounce higher. You know what? I'll give you all three for the creativity. I get it. I'm in a very fucking good mood today. The internet, I'm in a good mood every fucking day, but I'm a little bit goofier today than usual.

De'Vannon Seráphino: The internet's answer was to add spring water.

Elizabeth Hendrick: Excellent. Excellent. I like that one. Congratulations 

De'Vannon Seráphino: on being possibly the first person to get three out of three on the Sex, Drugs, and Jesus podcast dad joke segment. And with that girl, Elizabeth's website is exody. co. uk. I will put her link to her Amazon book, Instagram, X, and TikTok accounts in the show notes.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Thank you so much, Elizabeth. for being such a fabulous and transparent and brutally honest guest. It's been a pleasure. 

Elizabeth Hendrick: Thank you so much for having me Devan on this has been a real [00:59:00] thrill. It's been a great time chatting with you today. You're a very good interviewer. Thank you so much. Thank 

De'Vannon Seráphino: you.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Thank you all so much for joining us today and for taking some time to invest into yourself and into the lives of your loved ones, please visit us at sex drugs and jesus. com and check out our resource page, our spiritual service offerings, my blog, my books, and other writings that God has partnered with me to create.

De'Vannon Seráphino: Find us on any social media platform, stay strong, my people, and just remember that everything is going to be all right. [01:00:00]